• Home
  • About
    • Doug Ramsey
    • Rifftides
    • Contact
  • Purchase Doug’s Books
    • Poodie James
    • Take Five: The Public and Private Lives of Paul Desmond
    • Jazz Matters
    • Other Works
  • AJBlogs
  • ArtsJournal
  • rss

Rifftides

Doug Ramsey on Jazz and other matters...

Correspondence: Sound Judgment

June 25, 2009 by Doug Ramsey

Ted O’Reilly writes from Toronto about the item in the following exhibit:

Nice stuff with the DBQ. I agree with your comments about the sound quality especially. It was in the days of Professionals when that was recorded: both musicians (who knew how to play together) and technicians. “Balance Engineers” who could listen to a group play, then simply(!) put THAT sound on the air, or disc usually capturing it with three or four well-placed microphones.
I am still in awe of the hundreds of performance airchecks I have by Ellington/Basie/Herman et al. which stand up so beautifully over decades. It sure is a differently-made beast that is presented to our ears these days…

Ted’s communiqué put the Rifftides staff in mind of Roy DuNann’s imperishable engineering for Contemporary Records. To read about him, see this archives piece.

Related

Filed Under: Main

Comments

  1. Ted O'Reilly says

    June 25, 2009 at 1:59 pm

    Well, I was originally thinking of the anonymous radio guys who did the live remotes (“Now, from the Sky Lounge from high atop the Hotel Excelsior in downtown Drabsville, the Ginormous Radio Network presents for your dining and dancing pleasure the music of…”), but now you’ve gone and done it: Roy DuNann was the best! Some like Rudy Van Gelder (he was okay), there’s a good one in Switzerland named Peter Pfister, and I used to always work with Phil Sheridan, but DuNann was the champ!

  2. Jim Brown says

    June 28, 2009 at 3:25 am

    I’m commenting from the perspective of an audio professional who has done a lot of live recording and reinforcement and broadcast and cut my teeth on broadcast remotes (not music) in the 60’s.
    With respect to airchecks — I wouldn’t assign too much skill or sensitivity to the guys who did those remotes — I suspect it was a matter of simple, lazy, and low budget. The fact is, of course, that in recording (or broadcasting) an acoustic performance, less is more, and a few mics is far more likely to capture the acoustic ambiance than a lot of mics. But somehow, my analytical engineering brain suspects that wasn’t in the mind of the remote engineer who was sent to the jazz club to record.
    On the other hand, I am VERY impressed by the consistent high level that Roy Du Nann achieved, and I suspect he WAS thinking about it. His philosophy was simple — use good equipment, keep it simple, let the musicians do their thing, and capture it. He did that awfully well. The quality of the work he did is reflected by the relatively large number of his recordings that were chose as “audiophile” reissues. For example, Rollins “Way Out West,” and “Art Pepper Plus Eleven.”
    By contrast, Rudy strikes me as a guy who was very insecure, and carefully concealed every technique lest it be copied. Not a guy who would ever share anything he had learned. The good guys share. I met Val Valentine once at an AES convention, and was struck by the modesty and human sensitivity of the man.
    The real driver of the multi-mic setup was the producer who wanted to record everything with a lot of mics to individual tracks on the recording machine, and fix all the mistakes, musical and otherwise, in the mixdown. That was a bad idea, and the music recorded that way suffers from it.
    Jim Brown
    Fellow, Audio Engineering Society and serious jazz fan

  3. Ted O'Reilly says

    June 29, 2009 at 1:36 pm

    Jim, we’re 95% together on this, but I’m thinking of the ’30s/’40s airchecks, released on discs many years later, things like the Artie Shaw Blue Room or Goodman Camel Caravans or Glenn Miller broadcasts. They sound pretty damn good to me, to this day.
    Why would you not “assign too much skill or sensitivity”, or say “it was a matter of simple, lazy, and low budget” if, in the end, we (or at least I) can still happily listen 60 or 70 years later to the outcome? What I want to hear is the music, not the engineering.
    I realize you’re an engineer, but if I buy a Sonny Rollins record, I’d like to hear Sonny’s sound, NOT the engineer’s idea of Sonny’s sound. Therefore and again, “Thank you, Roy DuNann”.

  4. Jon Foley says

    July 1, 2009 at 4:16 pm

    Here’s an article that both of you gentlemen, and anyone else who cares about recorded sound, should read (if you haven’t already):
    http://www.stereophile.com/interviews/402roy/
    Everything you could possibly want to know about Roy DuNann and how he created his sound.
    I am second to no one in my admiration for DuNann’s work, but the purest reproduction of Rollins’s sound – his non-amplified sound – is on the recording “The MJQ At Music Inn, Vol. 2, Guest Artist: Sonny Rollins.” When I first played that record (back in another century), I literally jumped when I heard the first Rollins track; I said, “That’s exactly what a tenor saxophone sounds like!” If you’ve ever heard the sound of a tenor acoustically, from less than 20 feet away, that’s what this sounds like. And the engineer was the great Tom Dowd.

  5. Jim Brown says

    July 2, 2009 at 10:29 pm

    Responding to Ted’s question, I’m commenting from the perspective of thinking I know the mindset of the guys who typically went out to do those remotes. I believe that they did it simple because that was all they knew how to do, and because it would have taken more work to do more. Yes, some of them are good quality BECAUSE one mic in the right place is nearly always better than a lot of mics.
    Rhetorical question — do you really believe the the engineers who did these remotes were any more into the music than the air-headed announcers who typically accompanied them (introducing singers James Rushing and William Holiday)? These engineers were typically “radio guys.” A small percentage may have been, like me, a music fan, but that was almost certainly the exception, not the rule.
    AND — simpler is not always better. Several years ago, I undertook a private project to gather all of Prez’s clarinet recordings from the 30s on a single CD and remaster them to restore the quality lost in the reissue process (no record scratch, no rumble, so no presence, no bass). One of those tracks was an aircheck of “Indiana,” with Prez’s clarinet far off mic and mostly buried by the trumpet section playing accents. Another mic for solos might have improved things.
    To hear what I’m getting at with respect to the skills and sensitivities of US broadcast technicians, compare the sound quality, balance, and production values of almost any jazz video produced by a US broadcaster between 1950 and 1990 with almost any jazz video produced by a European broadcaster (e.g. the Jazz Icons series) in the same time frame. These are my brethern, and they make me ashamed.
    By the way — I’ve played those remastered Prez tracks, all of them from 1937-39, for some pretty savvy audio engineers. All are blown away by the quality of most of the studio recordings. For the most part, the guys working in those studios DID know what they were doing.
    Jim

Doug Ramsey

Doug is a recipient of the lifetime achievement award of the Jazz Journalists Association. He lives in the Pacific Northwest, where he settled following a career in print and broadcast journalism in cities including New York, New Orleans, San Francisco, Los Angeles, Seattle, Portland, San Antonio, Cleveland and Washington, DC. His writing about jazz has paralleled his life in journalism... [Read More]

Rifftides

A winner of the Blog Of The Year award of the international Jazz Journalists Association. Rifftides is founded on Doug's conviction that musicians and listeners who embrace and understand jazz have interests that run deep, wide and beyond jazz. Music is its principal concern, but the blog reaches past... Read More...

Subscribe to RiffTides by Email

Enter your email address to subscribe to this blog and receive notifications of new posts by email.

Doug’s Books

Doug's most recent book is a novel, Poodie James. Previously, he published Take Five: The Public and Private Lives of Paul Desmond. He is also the author of Jazz Matters: Reflections on the Music and Some of its Makers. He contributed to The Oxford Companion To Jazz and co-edited Journalism Ethics: Why Change? He is at work on another novel in which, as in Poodie James, music is incidental.

Archives

Recent Comments

  • Rob D on We’re Back: Pianist Denny Zeitlin’s New Trio Album for Sunnyside
  • W. Royal Stokes on We’re Back: Pianist Denny Zeitlin’s New Trio Album for Sunnyside
  • Larry on We’re Back: Pianist Denny Zeitlin’s New Trio Album for Sunnyside
  • Lucille Dolab on We’re Back: Pianist Denny Zeitlin’s New Trio Album for Sunnyside
  • Donna Birchard on We’re Back: Pianist Denny Zeitlin’s New Trio Album for Sunnyside

Doug’s Picks

We’re Back: Pianist Denny Zeitlin’s New Trio Album for Sunnyside

As Rifftides readers have undoubtedly noticed, it has been a long time since we posted. We are creating a new post in hopes  that it will open the way to resumption of frequent reports as part of the artsjournal.com mission to keep you up to date on jazz and other matters. Pianist Denny Zeitlin’s stunning new trio album […]

Recent Listening: The New David Friesen Trio CD

David Friesen Circle 3 Trio: Interaction (Origin) Among the dozens of recent releases that deserve serious attention, a few will get it. Among those those receiving it here is bassist David Friesen’s new album.  From the Portland, Oregon, sinecure in which he thrives when he’s not touring the world, bassist Friesen has been performing at […]

Monday Recommendation: Dominic Miller

Dominic Miller Absinthe (ECM) Guitarist and composer Miller delivers power and subtlety in equal measure. Abetted by producer Manfred Eicher’s canny guidance and ECM’s flawless sound and studio presence, Miller draws on inspiration from painters of France’s impressionist period. His liner essay emphasizes the importance to his musical conception of works by Cezanne, Renoir, Lautrec, […]

Recent Listening: Dave Young And Friends

Dave Young, Lotus Blossom (Modica Music) Young, the bassist praised by Oscar Peterson for his “harmonic simpatico and unerring sense of time” when he was a member of Peterson’s trio, leads seven gifted fellow Canadians. His beautifully recorded bass is the underpinning of a relaxed session in which his swing is a force even during […]

Recent Listening: Jazz Is Of The World

Paolo Fresu, Richard Galliano, Jan Lundgren, Mare Nostrum III (ACT) This third outing by Mare Nostrum continues the international trio’s close collaboration in a series of albums that has enjoyed considerable success. With three exceptions, the compositions in this installment are by the members of Mare Nostrum. It opens with one the French accordionist Galliano […]

Monday Recommendation: Thelonious Monk’s Works In Full

Kimbrough, Robinson, Reid, Drummond: Monk’s Dreams(Sunnyside) The subtitle of this invaluable 6-CD set is The Complete Compositions Of Thelonious Sphere Monk. By complete, Sunnyside means that the box contains six CDs with 70 tunes that Monk wrote beginning in the early years when his music was generally assumed to be an eccentric offshoot of bebop, […]

More Doug's Picks

Blogroll

All About Jazz
JerryJazzMusician
Carol Sloane: SloaneView
Jazz Beyond Jazz: Howard Mandel
The Gig: Nate Chinen
Wonderful World of Louis Armstrong
Don Heckman: The International Review Of Music
Ted Panken: Today is The Question
George Colligan: jazztruth
Brilliant Corners
Jazz Music Blog: Tom Reney
Brubeck Institute
Darcy James Argue
Jazz Profiles: Steve Cerra
Notes On Jazz: Ralph Miriello
Bob Porter: Jazz Etc.
be.jazz
Marc Myers: Jazz Wax
Night Lights
Jason Crane:The Jazz Session
JazzCorner
I Witness
ArtistShare
Jazzportraits
John Robert Brown
Night After Night
Do The Math/The Bad Plus
Prague Jazz
Russian Jazz
Jazz Quotes
Jazz History Online
Lubricity

Personal Jazz Sites
Chris Albertson: Stomp Off
Armin Buettner: Crownpropeller’s Blog
Cyber Jazz Today, John Birchard
Dick Carr’s Big Bands, Ballads & Blues
Donald Clarke’s Music Box
Noal Cohen’s Jazz History
Bill Crow
Easy Does It: Fernando Ortiz de Urbana
Bill Evans Web Pages
Dave Frishberg
Ronan Guilfoyle: Mostly Music
Bill Kirchner
Mike Longo
Jan Lundgren (Friends of)
Willard Jenkins/The Independent Ear
Ken Joslin: Jazz Paintings
Bruno Leicht
Earl MacDonald
Books and CDs: Bill Reed
Marvin Stamm

Tarik Townsend: It’s A Raggy Waltz
Steve Wallace: Jazz, Baseball, Life and Other Ephemera
Jim Wilke’s Jazz Northwest
Jessica Williams

Other Culture Blogs
Terry Teachout
DevraDoWrite
Alex Ross: The Rest Is Noise
On An Overgrown Path

Journalism
PressThink: Jay Rosen
Second Draft, Tim Porter
Poynter Online

Related

Return to top of page

an ArtsJournal blog

This blog published under a Creative Commons license

Copyright © 2023 · Magazine Pro Theme on Genesis Framework · WordPress · Log in