{"id":234,"date":"2009-08-13T13:37:01","date_gmt":"2009-08-13T17:37:01","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/www.artsjournal.com\/jazzbeyondjazz\/wp\/2009\/08\/rashied_ali_1935_-_2009_multi\/"},"modified":"2011-04-28T16:33:41","modified_gmt":"2011-04-28T20:33:41","slug":"rashied_ali_1935_-_2009_multi","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.artsjournal.com\/jazzbeyondjazz\/2009\/08\/rashied_ali_1935_-_2009_multi.html","title":{"rendered":"Rashied Ali (1935 – 2009), multi-directional drummer, speaks"},"content":{"rendered":"

<\/p>\n

A 1990 interview with drummer Rashied Ali, about his relationship with John Coltrane.<\/span><\/p>\n


\n<\/p>\n

In 1990 I interviewed drummer Rashied Ali for\u00c2\u00a0The World According to John Coltrane<\/a><\/i>, a documentary produced and directed by Toby Byron. It was the first but not the last time I spoke to Ali, a sorely underrated musician and jazz presence who died yesterday (August 12, 2009) following a heart attack at age 74.\u00c2\u00a0Here’s a transcript<\/a>\u00c2\u00a0of our talk, slightly edited and annotated, mostly about Coltrane, with whom Ali became famous.\u00c2\u00a0He describes hearing the saxophonist practicing at his mother’s home in Philadelphia, how he first began to play with Coltrane, Trane’s dedication to improving his instrumental skills, their tour of Japan, of dreaming about Coltrane and of their duet recording\u00c2\u00a0Interstellar Space<\/a><\/span>. Only excerpts were used in the film.<\/o:p><\/span><\/p>\n


<\/span><\/p>\n

HM:
\nRashied, will you introduce yourself for the camera and to me, and sort of
\ninclude in it how you think of yourself in relationship to John Coltrane.<\/span><\/p>\n

RA: Well,
\nI’m Rashied Ali, and I play drums and how I can relate myself with John is . . .
\nwell, for one thing he put the name on the type of drums I was playing. I
\ndidn’t know what it was, but he called it multi-directional rhythms. Which I
\nlooked up in the dictionary and found that it means playing three or four
\ndifferent rhythms at the same time. And I guess I can relate to John as trying
\nto be the best that I can be in whatever I do. Because just the thing that he
\nseemed to instill on me and on people around him as to try to be really be the
\nbest at what you do. So I can relate that way to him.<\/span><\/p>\n

HM: You were
\nsaying that as a kid you used to go to his mother’s house in Philadelphia and
\nsit around there?<\/span><\/p>\n

RA:\u00c2\u00a0 <\/span>Well, his mom lived on 33rd Street
\nright across from the park. It was a section of Philadelphia called Strawberry Mansion.
\nAnd I lived in that same section. And during the time he was working with Miles
\nDavis we used to, you know, go around to his house just trying to see if we
\ncould see him outside or sitting around. Anywhere. And a lot of times we would
\njust hear him practicing out of his window, so we just sit around the steps and
\nsit around and listen to him practice. Actually to meet him and to talk to him
\ncame years later after I had really got into playing. I met him at a club in
\nPhiladelphia for the first time.<\/span><\/p>\n

HM: Was he
\nlike a local hero of a sort, somebody who was really admired among the young
\nguys?<\/span><\/p>\n

RA:\u00c2\u00a0 <\/span>Yeah, he had something for the young
\nmusicians at that time.\u00c2\u00a0 <\/span>He was
\nplaying a totally different kind of saxophone sound than we had been accustomed
\nto listening to. We were listening to Charlie Parker and Stan Getz even and
\nDexter Gordon and people like that, you know, and Gerry Mulligan, But Coltrane —
\nhe sort of had grown into this new way of playing. It’s hard to explain the way
\nit was but the youngsters got on to it right away. I mean we were listening to
\nit right away. First it sort of seemed strange to us and at first I was going,
\nlike, ‘You know, I think I’d rather listen to Dexter Gordon,’ because some of
\nthe stuff he was playing, I couldn’t really understand what it was.\u00c2\u00a0 <\/span>And then after a while listening to him
\nplay with Miles Davis, everybody just fell in love with that stuff.<\/span><\/p>\n

HM:\u00c2\u00a0 <\/span>What were these first records that you
\nwere hearing, that seemed odd?<\/span><\/p>\n

RA: The first
\nrecords that he did with Miles. I was into Miles Davis. I was listening to
\neverything he’d do. Miles came out with his first LP for Prestige Records
\ncalled Musing With Miles<\/i>. He just had
\na jacket on and a hat [in the cover photo] and I think it was Philly Joe Jones
\nand Oscar Pettiford and was there a pianist on it? Red Garland, or one of those
\npeople. Well, anyway, Miles came out with this record and then somehow, Miles
\nwas looking for a saxophone player and Philly Joe Jones came from Philly and
\nintroduced him to ‘Trane and then ‘Trane got with Miles and they started doing
\nthese records on Prestige, Workin’<\/i> and
\n‘Round Midnight<\/i>. No, I think that was
\non Columbia Records. But Workin’<\/i> and
\na few other good records [Cookin’, Steamin’, Relaxin’] that came out of there
\n[Prestige]. That’s when I heard Trane the first time that really made an
\nimpression on me, when I heard him play with Miles on those records and that’s
\nwhen I started looking for all Coltrane’s records.<\/span><\/p>\n

HM:\u00c2\u00a0 <\/span>Were you already playing by the time
\nyou heard Coltrane?<\/span><\/p>\n

RA: Yeah, I
\nwas playing at that time. I started playing drums at a very early age. I was
\nplaying drums when I was in high school. So, I knew about Trane even before Miles
\nDavis because I have cousins, well, second cousins, my father’s first cousins —
\nCharlie Rice and Berna [?] Rice who play drums also.\u00c2\u00a0 <\/span>They both play drums and they both played around with each
\nother, like Jimmy Heath and Charlie Rice and Coltrane, they all played
\ntogether, so like, I’d always heard of him through that source. But I never got
\na chance to really see him play until I got into playing myself.<\/span><\/p>\n

HM: Even
\nwhen you were listening to his records, did the music that Miles and Coltrane
\nplay effect how you played the drums?<\/span><\/p>\n

RA: Yeah,
\nit definitely effected my playing. Because I was very influenced and still am
\n— well, not very influenced now, but I learned a lot from listening to people
\nlike Max Roach and Art Blakey. Max Roach had a hot band in those days with
\nClifford Brown, and Blakey, he just had one hot band after another with that Jazz
\nMessengers. Between those two, I was listening a lot to the way they played
\ndrums.\u00c2\u00a0 <\/span>But then when I hear
\nColtrane play with Elvin Jones…now I had heard him play before with different
\ndrummers like Philly Jo Jones and people like that who complemented Coltrane,
\nwhat he was doing really good, but when Elvin came into the band somehow that was
\nlike a Charlie Parker and Max Roach combination. That was like the ultimate
\ncombination and that, and listening to Ornette Coleman and different people, it
\nsort of changed my feelings about the drum set. Instead of being a timekeeper
\ndrummer, I wanted to play more. You know I wanted to be more freer and play
\nmore drums than just being a timekeeper, you know.\u00c2\u00a0 <\/span>So, that’s how it influenced me by listening to Coltrane and
\nElvin Jones play some of those duets that they were playing.\u00c2\u00a0 <\/span>When everybody would just drop out,
\nMcCoy [Tyner, pianist] would drop out and Jimmy [Garrison, bassist] would drop
\nout and, and Jones and Trane had it.\u00c2\u00a0
\n<\/span>That influenced me quite a bit.\u00c2\u00a0
\n<\/span>I was very taken back by that type of music.<\/span><\/p>\n

HM: Did you
\nseek out somebody that you could have that kind of partnership with?<\/span><\/p>\n

RA: Oh,
\ndefinitely, in fact, I was doing things like that round Philadelphia on my own.
\nI have two brothers who also play drums and we would put bands together, with
\nsaxophone players. We would sometimes just have two sets of drums and three
\nsaxophone players for the whole band. We were doing a lot of drums and
\nsaxophones and stuff like that — double quartets — like coming from Ornette
\ntype of thing [documented on Free Jazz<\/i>]
\ntwo groups playing at the same time simultaneously. This was like in the late
\n’50s and early ’60s.<\/span><\/p>\n

HM: Why was
\nthere so much searching going on? Is that something that\u00c2\u00a0Coltrane
\nwas an example of, looking for things?\u00c2\u00a0<\/span><\/span><\/p>\n

RA: He sort
\nof opened things up because he such a relentless player and searcher. He never
\nstopped playing. When I used to go to hear ‘Trane, he would always be playing. He
\nwould be playing in his dressing room. He would be playing before he got to me.
\nJust like a fighter would warm up in the dressing room, he’d come out in the
\nring and he’d be sweating from warming up, he would do the same thing in the
\ndressing room. He would just play and play and play. He would break a sweat in
\nthe dressing room and then when he would come out on the bandstand, he had all
\nthat — I don’t know where he got that energy from. He was relentless. He was
\nalways pressuring the music, I mean trying to get as much out of it as he
\ncould. As far as the music was concerned, it was hard to keep up with a person
\nlike that. I mean, most people, they play — but with Coltrane, that was all he
\ndid. That was every bit of it. He wasn’t into sports; he wasn’t into baseball,
\nbasketball. He wasn’t into anything but music.\u00c2\u00a0 <\/span>So he just did that all the time, all the time. It was a
\nheck of a thing to be around a person like that. I think I learned a lot from
\njust being around a person that way.\u00c2\u00a0<\/span><\/span><\/p>\n

HM: It
\nsounds almost frightening.\u00c2\u00a0 <\/span>Sort of
\nlike, doesn’t this guy have any other life at all?<\/span><\/p>\n

RA: He had
\nonly music. I mean, I’m sure he had other life, other than music, but for the
\nlife of me I couldn’t see anything else that he did except play. He just played
\nall the time. Even when I was with the band. When I was working with the band,
\nhe played on the airplane. He had a flute or something. On the train, in the
\nhotel room. You walk in the hotel room you hear this saxophone all up and down
\nthe hotel. Everywhere he played, the first thing he wanted to know was would he
\nbe able to play, before he even got a place to stay. And they would go,
\n“Oh yeah, sure.” That’s the way he did all the time. You know
\nwhat?\u00c2\u00a0 <\/span>That helped me a lot.\u00c2\u00a0 <\/span>You know, to see somebody with that
\nkind of dedication.<\/span><\/p>\n

He was
\nalways playing and I think that’s what really got me the most with him.\u00c2\u00a0 <\/span>I was heavily influenced by the man’s
\nmusic, just his music. But then, you know, after I’d seen what it took to be
\ngreat like that — I mean, it was awesome.\u00c2\u00a0 <\/span>He always had an instrument in his hand.\u00c2\u00a0 <\/span>He was always playing something. He was
\nalways trying to be better than he was and it seemed like, you know, how could
\nhe get better? How could he do anything better than that, than what he’s done
\nalready? And after playing all these years with all these different people,
\nKing Kolax and Eddie Vinson and all these rock and rollers and rhythm and blues
\nartists and jazz artists, the man still had a vision that he could be better
\nthan he was and he was still practicing. You know, after awhile you stop
\npracticing. This man was in his 40s, right?\u00c2\u00a0 <\/span>And he had played with everybody and he was still playing
\neveryday. So that was a profound statement as far as I was concerned.<\/span><\/p>\n

When I was
\nyounger, I practiced like that — hard, everyday, 12 hours a day.\u00c2\u00a0 <\/span>And you know, here I was playing with
\nColtrane, like I made it. Okay. I was makin’ it. I was playing with Coltrane —
\nbut this man was still practicing like he was 20 years old.\u00c2\u00a0 <\/span>So that I think that influenced me
\nagain. See, I was influenced being around him to try to keep up with what he
\nwas doing and I think that helped me musically.<\/span><\/p>\n

HM: When
\nyou did begin to play as a professional, did you start off with rock and roll
\nand rhythm and blues bands and then played with jazz musicians and then<\/i> played something that was like
\nbeyond jazz?<\/span><\/p>\n

RA: I think
\njazz is like everything else. You learn how to play that and then after you play
\nthat you you become who you are. You become yourself, I mean. I’ve heard Coltrane
\nwas influenced by people like Dexter Gordon and people like that, you know. And
\nBird. In fact, he told me himself that when he heard Bird he stopped playing
\nalto saxophone, because he had started playing alto saxophone and he said that
\nwhen he heard Bird he just didn’t want no part to that horn anymore. Because
\nwhat Bird was doing with the horn was just impossible for anybody else to do. So
\nhe stopped playing the alto and picked up the tenor, man. And I thank Bird a
\nthousand times-fold for getting Trane to play the tenor saxophone because what
\nhe did with the tenor saxophone is still being reckoned with today and there
\nare scores of players, I don’t care who they are, if they play the tenor
\nsaxophone you can hear a little bit of John Coltrane in them. And it was just
\nthe way he was, the way he lived.\u00c2\u00a0
\n<\/span>He played what he lived, and it was an honor to be around him.<\/span><\/p>\n

HM: Tell me
\nabout when you first got the call from him to come join the band or however
\nthat happened.<\/span><\/p>\n

RA: I’m
\ngonna tell you, I wanted to play with Trane so bad . . . I was motivated to do
\nthat because I been listening to his records all my life and most of my practice
\nwas with Coltrane records. I would just get into my basement and I’d play these
\nrecords so you could hear him a mile away and I’d be practicing and playing with
\nthese records all the time. And so I had a real good idea of what to play with Trane.
\nSo I didn’t really get the call, I just sort of put myself into a position to
\ndo that. He was working at this club, right down here on Spring St.\u00c2\u00a0 <\/span>It was called the Half Note at the
\ntime, on Hudson at Spring. Trane had that place for as long as he was in New
\nYork; if he wasn’t playing [on tour] he could go there and play for two weeks,
\nthree weeks, a month, however long he wanted to. And that’s how he got a lot of
\nthings together. He would write songs and he would play ’em there for the first
\ntime to try things out. I would go over there and I would just sit around on
\nthe steps and I asked to play and he said ‘Well, no, not today.’<\/span><\/p>\n

And I would
\njust sit there and ask again the next night and the next night and the next
\nnight. One day I just came there and I don’t know, fate, whatever, Elvin wasn’t
\nthere yet and it was time to play and everybody was walking around the stage to
\nplay. And I said, ‘Can I play?’ And he looked at me for a long time and he
\nsaid, ‘All right, c’mon.’ And I went up and I played. I played for a whole set
\nbefore Elvin came, and then I got down. And the next day I was there again and
\nI said, ‘Can I play?’ He said, ‘Sure, c’mon.’ And I played again.\u00c2\u00a0 <\/span>And then I went there one time and
\nElvin seen me coming and he said, ‘C’mon up here and play for me.’ He had to
\nrun somewhere and I played again.<\/span><\/p>\n

And then he
\n[Coltrane] asked me, he said, ‘Rashied, I’m gonna do some tapes and I would
\nlike for you to play on them with me.’ And I, you know — I’m gonna tell you,
\nman, I had an ego bigger than this building at that point, playing with Trane. Just
\nsitting in with him just inflated my ego to the point when I was ridiculous. I
\nwas young, I was ridiculous and I said, ‘Yeah I would like to play. Who else is
\ngonna play?’ He said, ‘Elvin is gonna play.’ I said, ‘You gonna have two
\ndrummers like that?’ He said, Yeah,’ and I said, ‘Well, I don’t think I wanna
\nplay with two drummers.’ He said, ‘Oh, you don’t?’ I said, ‘No, I don’t think
\nso.’\u00c2\u00a0 <\/span>So I blew the date, which
\nturned out to be Ascension<\/i>.<\/span><\/p>\n

You heard
\nof that date, right? All my friends like Dewey Johnson, Archie Shepp, Larry
\nYoung, John Tchicai, all these guys made this date and I wasn’t there, behind
\nbeing stupid, right? I go like, ‘Oh, man!’ He was talking about a record date
\nwhen he said tapes. I thought to myself, ‘Whoa, man, you better get it
\ntogether.’ So then after the date, Coltrane went out with Pharoah Sanders, and
\nhe called me up and said came back you know, ‘You know Coltrane’s back and we’re
\ngonna play at the Village Gate. You ought to call him up, man.” So, I
\ncalled him up.<\/span><\/p>\n

I said, ‘Hi
\n‘Trane.’ He said, ‘Hey Rashied, how you doing?’ I said, ‘You playing at the
\nVillage Gate?’ He said, ‘Yeah.’ I said, ‘I would love to play with you.’ He
\nsaid, ‘Oh, that’s fine, you know, but Elvin’s gonna be playing, too.’\u00c2\u00a0 <\/span>I said, ‘Oh, that’s fine. It’s great, I
\nmean, of course, I don’t mind. He said, ‘Okay, have your drums there at eight
\no’clock. Then that’s it.’ And I learned such a lesson on that, you know. I
\nmean, I don’t have anything bad to say about musicians, hardly ever. Because I
\nfeel like you can always learn something from anybody, I don’t care how bad or
\nhow good they are. So I learned a lesson on that. My ego sort of got deflated
\non that one.<\/span><\/p>\n

HM: What
\nabout Elvin? Was he not shaken by your being on the set, too?<\/span><\/p>\n

RA: Oh,
\ndefinitely not. Elvin Jones is a creative artist and there was a lot of rumors
\nout at the time that he was upset . . . Well, maybe he might have been a little
\nupset, but he wasn’t shaken by no point because he’s a great artist and I
\nlearned a lot from Elvin Jones’ style of drumming. He was one of the direct reasons
\nwhy I play today. It was because of the way Elvin Jones played. I was young and
\nI was into being in a band. It was like going to college, being a sophomore or
\na freshman in a college. Here I was just coming into the band and I was playing
\nwith people like Jimmy Garrison and then Elvin Jones and McCoy and I was like I
\nhad to keep up something, you know. I had to feel like I couldn’t show any
\nweaknesses, you know, because these guys were veterans, they knew everything
\nand I guess I sort of overreacted to a lot of things.\u00c2\u00a0 <\/span>But at the same time I have one hell of a love feeling for
\nElvin Jones because I think that Elvin Jones’ style of drumming helped me with
\nthe style that I developed.<\/span><\/p>\n

HM: Why did
\nColtrane want another drummer?\u00c2\u00a0
\n<\/span>What did he hear?<\/span><\/p>\n

RA: Because
\nhe was in a drummer thing. He just wanted to free himself from playing these
\nstrict changes. The bass player and the piano player would lay these chords
\ndown, you know, and he played just about everything he could play on these
\nchords. He played ’em upside down. He’d turn ’em around. He played ’em
\nsideways. He did just about everything he could to ’em. And playing with the
\ndrums he didn’t have to deal with chord changes and keys and stuff like that.
\nSo he was free to play however he wanted to play. There were times I played
\nwith Trane, he had a battery of drummers, like about three conga players, guys
\nplaying batas, shakers and barrels and everything. On one of his records he did
\nthat. At the Village Vanguard, live, we had a whole bunch of drummers plus the
\ntraps. And then sometimes he would have double traps. Like in Chicago, I played
\ndouble traps with a young drummer \u00c2\u00a0<\/span>coming up there, named Jack DeJohnette.<\/span><\/p>\n

HM: So what
\nare the tours that you went on with Trane? In ’66 you went to Japan, didn’t
\nyou?<\/span><\/p>\n

RA: If I
\ncan remember correctly, we did eight or nine concerts in Japan. We started in
\nTokyo and we went to Nagasaki, Hiroshima, Nagoya…a couple places that I can’t
\npronounce, and Kyoto. I remember Kyoto because this is the place where they
\nhave beer-fed cows to make the steak tender. They feed beer to the cows, that
\nwas their thing. But anyway, in Japan, that was a heck of a trip because we
\nplayed in theaters and they were large theaters and it was unbelievable, the
\npeople that came out to hear Coltrane. They packed the theaters. People were
\nsitting in the aisles and on half of the stage. \u00c2\u00a0<\/span>And it was just jam-packed, every concert we did there. Even
\nsneak concerts — when we first went there we had like a preview press
\nconference-concert and that was jammed. So we got a chance to play to a lot of
\npeople in Japan, a lot of people.<\/span><\/p>\n

HM: Why do
\nyou think they were so receptive to Coltrane?\u00c2\u00a0<\/span><\/span><\/p>\n

RA: Because
\nthe Japanese, they have a reputation of being up on everything.\u00c2\u00a0 <\/span>And this was in ’67 and they were up on
\njazz, even in ’67. I don’t know when they got into it, but they had drum
\nmachines and all that stuff going on — I remember seeing the first drum
\nmachine in Japan when I was there in the ’66.\u00c2\u00a0 <\/span>And so, they were just waiting for Trane. When we came off
\nthe airplane, they had life-size posters of us like, you know, like in the
\nsheath, how you carry a flag? They had life-size posters and bigger, cut-out to
\nshape, of each one of us at the airport and then they took a red carpet and
\nrolled a red carpet from the plane into the terminal for Coltrane. That’s the
\nway they did it in Japan.<\/span><\/p>\n

HM: Have
\nyou ever gotten a reception like that anyplace else?\u00c2\u00a0<\/span><\/span><\/p>\n

RA: Never,
\never, never. And I don’t think it will ever happen again. That was a once in a
\nlifetime situation.\u00c2\u00a0<\/span><\/span><\/p>\n

HM: What
\nkind of songs repertoire were you performing?<\/span><\/p>\n

RA: Mostly
\nall original songs. Coltrane played mostly all original songs.\u00c2\u00a0 <\/span>He played ‘Leo,’ he played ‘My Favorite
\nThings.’ It’s hard for me to think of the names of these songs. ‘Living
\nColors.’ I can’t really think of the names, ‘Meditation,’ ‘Impressions’ and
\nstuff like that, you know. He wrote a lot of new stuff for this band. He tried
\nnot to play the same kind of music he played with the previous band. He was doing
\nthings from Impressions, Meditations<\/i>,
\n“Ogunde,” stuff he was doing on the new record that came out as Cosmic Music. <\/i>Stuff like that.<\/span><\/p>\n

HM: He was
\nplaying a little flute, too, wasn’t he?<\/span><\/p>\n

RA: Yeah,
\nhe had inherited Eric Dolphy’s instruments — the base clarinet and the flutes
\nand so on. Eric’s mom gave him the flutes so he felt that he had to try and
\nlearn how to play the flute. He always didn’t want to know how to play it, for
\nsome reason. But when he got Eric’s horns, he started playing the flute.\u00c2\u00a0 <\/span>He was coming on with that flute, too. I
\nmean, he only had a little while and he recorded with it. It wasn’t gonna be
\nlong before he would started playing it but he didn’t live to really get into
\nit.\u00c2\u00a0 <\/span>I think he was on his way of
\nbecoming a good flutist.<\/span><\/p>\n

HM: What
\ndid you notice about his health?<\/span><\/p>\n

RA: I never
\nnoticed. I didn’t know he was sick. I had no idea he was sick. I knew he was
\ndrinking juices and stuff. But he was not the kind of person that complained. Not
\nto me, anyway, about being sick or anything. A few things he said to me to make
\nme think, but I wasn’t hardly listening to it because I just couldn’t see him
\nbeing sick at all. The way he played on the stage and as much power he used to
\nplay the saxophone, I had no idea that he was sick. But I have pictures of him
\nwhere he had his hands on his liver at times, he was getting pains there. And
\nhe complained sometimes about being tired, you know, being not as energetic as
\nhe usually was. But that was about the only complaints that I ever got. I was
\ntotally in shock when I heard that he had died that morning, July 17, when I
\nhad heard about that. I had no idea. In fact, we had just played about two
\nweeks or a week before that happened. And he was playing strong, but I noticed
\nhe was sitting down in a chair so I guess he was a little tired . . . The liver
\nrobs you of a lot of energy when it gets on the blink.\u00c2\u00a0 <\/span>And, that’s all you know, I just never
\nreally realized that he was sick enough to pass.<\/span><\/p>\n

HM: Were
\nyou close with Alice [Coltrane’s wife, then playing piano with him]?\u00c2\u00a0 <\/span>Did the family do anything?\u00c2\u00a0 <\/span>What was hap\u00c2\u00adpening in the musical
\ncommunity at that point?<\/span><\/p>\n

RA: What do
\nyou mean?<\/span><\/p>\n

HM: I suppose
\neverybody felt the way you did, like shocked.<\/span><\/p>\n

RA: Yeah,
\nyeah.<\/span><\/p>\n

HM: What,
\nwhat was happening around Alice?\u00c2\u00a0
\n<\/span>What happened to the band?<\/span><\/p>\n

RA: Well, Alice
\nkept going with the band.\u00c2\u00a0 <\/span>She put
\nout this record Cosmic Music<\/i>, on the
\nJohn Coltrane label that when it first came out [quickly re-released by
\nImpulse!] And she did a Carnegie Hall concert to open up with the label. And we
\ndid that. And then we did a lot of different things as far as playing and
\nrecording. We did a lot of recording because Coltrane built the studio right in
\nhis basement and so it was just about going out to Deer Park [Long Island, New
\nYork] and into the basement and playing, and so we did some recordings there.
\nAnd she kept it going. But it was a shock. Not only was it a shock to me and
\nthe family, it was a shock amongst all the musicians, too.\u00c2\u00a0 <\/span>Because nobody had an inkling that he
\nwas sick enough to pass.\u00c2\u00a0<\/span><\/span><\/p>\n

HM: Do you
\nthink about Coltrane often these days?<\/span><\/p>\n

RA: I dream
\nabout Coltrane, vivid dreams, like live dreams. I used to dream about him so
\nmuch when he first died I told my mother used to get very nervous about me
\ndreaming about him. She used to always tell me, ‘If he asks you to come with
\nhim, don’t go. Refuse to go.’ My mother’s very psychic about that. She says at
\none point in the dream he’d extend his hand out for me to come and I shouldn’t,
\nbecause he was supposed to not be here and I was saying, ‘You’re not supposed
\nto be here.’\u00c2\u00a0 <\/span>But the dreams were
\nreal and every now and then I dream a real dream about Coltrane and it’s such a
\nreal dream until I wake up and I have to really lay there and get it together
\nto make sure that I’m back. Because I would definitely be gone into the dream.
\nI mean, musical dreams. I hear some stuff in dreams that needed written down. I
\nwoke up and I would get my pencil out and I would put it down on paper, or put
\nit down on the tape. I could remember the songs that I played. Or heard him
\nplay. Or played with him. Yeah. It was very musical.<\/span><\/p>\n

HM:\u00c2\u00a0 <\/span>Tell me something about Interstellar Space<\/i>, your duet record with Coltrane.<\/span><\/p>\n

RA: That’s
\nwhat I was getting to. Interstellar Space<\/i>
\nwas like the ultimate record that Coltrane really always wanted to do, because
\nhe loved drums. In fact, he loved drums so much, if we would have a second set
\nof drums on the stage, sometimes he would come up there and play them.<\/span><\/p>\n

I mean, he
\nwould sit behind the drums and play with the band, you know. He really had
\nsomething about drums that he loved. And to do a record with him, to do a
\ncomplete record with him, just as a duo was a big honor for me. In fact, I
\nstill charge up from that record. I can play that record in the morning and it
\ngets me started for the whole day. I just heard that they released some new
\nmaterial that we’d done in Japan on some duet stuff. We just went into the
\nstudio for a day or two days and we just played and recorded, just played and
\nrecorded. And that’s the way it was. I think that was some of the greatest
\nstuff we ever did, I think.<\/span><\/p>\n

HM: He
\nwould give you structure, you would give him structure or — ?<\/span><\/p>\n

RA: Ah, he
\ndid the whole thing. He would say what kind of song it is, if it is in three or
\nfour, if it was fast, if it was slow, if it was medium and sometimes he would
\njust say that we’d just play and we would just make things up. We’d play slow
\nfor a little while and then I’d speed it up and play faster. He used to always
\ntell me that he could play any kind of way with the way I played drums. He
\ncould play fast or slow, it doesn’t matter. Just because I was just always
\nkeeping something going, you know. Not necessarily keeping a tempo. You know,
\njust wide open, just keeping it open so that he was free to play. However he felt
\nlike, or however he wished.\u00c2\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n

HM: Thanks,
\nRashied, that gives us plenty to work with.<\/span><\/p>\n

RA: It’s
\nover that quick?<\/o:p><\/span><\/p>\n

<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

A 1990 interview with drummer Rashied Ali, about his relationship with John Coltrane.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":2,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"_genesis_hide_title":false,"_genesis_hide_breadcrumbs":false,"_genesis_hide_singular_image":false,"_genesis_hide_footer_widgets":false,"_genesis_custom_body_class":"","_genesis_custom_post_class":"","_genesis_layout":"","jetpack_post_was_ever_published":false,"_jetpack_newsletter_access":"","_jetpack_dont_email_post_to_subs":false,"_jetpack_newsletter_tier_id":0,"_jetpack_memberships_contains_paywalled_content":false,"_jetpack_memberships_contains_paid_content":false,"footnotes":""},"categories":[6],"tags":[460,459,376,462,461],"class_list":{"0":"post-234","1":"post","2":"type-post","3":"status-publish","4":"format-standard","6":"category-interviews","7":"tag-interstellar-space","8":"tag-john-coltrane","9":"tag-rashied-ali","10":"tag-the-world-according-to-john-coltrane","11":"tag-toby-byron","12":"entry"},"jetpack_featured_media_url":"","jetpack_shortlink":"https:\/\/wp.me\/p1i3CL-3M","jetpack_sharing_enabled":true,"jetpack-related-posts":[{"id":235,"url":"https:\/\/www.artsjournal.com\/jazzbeyondjazz\/2009\/08\/rashied_ali_multi-directional.html","url_meta":{"origin":234,"position":0},"title":"Rashied Ali, multi-directional drummer, interviewed","author":"Howard Mandel","date":"August 13, 2009","format":false,"excerpt":"In 1990 I interviewed drummer Rashied Ali for\u00c2\u00a0The World According to John Coltrane, a documentary produced and directed by Toby Byron. It was the first but not the last time I spoke to Ali, a sorely underrated musician and jazz presence who died yesterday (August 12, 2009) following a heart\u2026","rel":"","context":"In "main"","block_context":{"text":"main","link":"https:\/\/www.artsjournal.com\/jazzbeyondjazz\/category\/main"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"","width":0,"height":0},"classes":[]},{"id":218,"url":"https:\/\/www.artsjournal.com\/jazzbeyondjazz\/2009\/07\/first_impressions_of_new_relea.html","url_meta":{"origin":234,"position":1},"title":"Fast impressions, new jazz ‘n’ out cds","author":"Howard Mandel","date":"July 19, 2009","format":false,"excerpt":"I'm determined to try to survey unusual and promising new jazz-and-beyond cds with regularity -- here are responses (not in-depth reviews) to only half-a-dozen grabbed off my teetering in-pile almost at random, plus related diversions. The scale:\u00a05 stars \"You gotta hear this\"; 4 - \"very interesting, if interested in this\u2026","rel":"","context":"In "main"","block_context":{"text":"main","link":"https:\/\/www.artsjournal.com\/jazzbeyondjazz\/category\/main"},"img":{"alt_text":"Product Details","src":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/ecx.images-amazon.com\/images\/I\/51gQi2SuQ6L._SL160_AA160_.jpg?resize=350%2C200","width":350,"height":200},"classes":[]},{"id":57,"url":"https:\/\/www.artsjournal.com\/jazzbeyondjazz\/2008\/01\/windy_city_jazz_response.html","url_meta":{"origin":234,"position":2},"title":"Windy city, jazz response","author":"Howard Mandel","date":"January 23, 2008","format":false,"excerpt":"Chicagoans won't be deterred -- like other northerners, they shrug off January and find meaning by escaping their caves. At least, I hope so, heading into my hometown for the Jazz Institute of Chicago's annual winter Jazz Fair at the beautiful Cultural Center. The fair is free -- free jazz!\u2026","rel":"","context":"In "main"","block_context":{"text":"main","link":"https:\/\/www.artsjournal.com\/jazzbeyondjazz\/category\/main"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"","width":0,"height":0},"classes":[]},{"id":302,"url":"https:\/\/www.artsjournal.com\/jazzbeyondjazz\/2010\/03\/anti-jazz_the_still-new_thing.html","url_meta":{"origin":234,"position":3},"title":"Anti-jazz, the still-new thing","author":"Howard Mandel","date":"March 4, 2010","format":false,"excerpt":"International House Philadelphia hosts a series way beyond old jazz conventions, with roots in the wild stuff fav' son John Coltrane blew in 1961. I delve into the 50-year controversy for PMP \u00a0online magazine of the Philadelphia Music Project\u00a0here, before the Art Ensemble of Chicago plays what it's come to\u2026","rel":"","context":"In "main"","block_context":{"text":"main","link":"https:\/\/www.artsjournal.com\/jazzbeyondjazz\/category\/main"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"","width":0,"height":0},"classes":[]},{"id":1727,"url":"https:\/\/www.artsjournal.com\/jazzbeyondjazz\/2014\/09\/beautiful-coltrane-birthday-celebrate-with-offering.html","url_meta":{"origin":234,"position":4},"title":"Beautiful Coltrane birthday — celebrate with “Offering”","author":"Howard Mandel","date":"September 23, 2014","format":false,"excerpt":"Today, Sept 23, is a beautiful 88th birthdate of the late revered and intrepid saxophonist\/composer\u00c2\u00a0John Coltrane, celebrated with the release of\u00c2\u00a0Offering, the first professionally prepared\u00c2\u00a0cd of his November 1966 concert at Temple University. This is the most significant addition to Coltrane's ouevre since the 2005 discovery by\u00c2\u00a0Library of Congress researcher\u2026","rel":"","context":"In "main"","block_context":{"text":"main","link":"https:\/\/www.artsjournal.com\/jazzbeyondjazz\/category\/main"},"img":{"alt_text":"offering","src":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/www.artsjournal.com\/jazzbeyondjazz\/wp\/wp-content\/uploads\/2014\/09\/offering.jpg?resize=350%2C200","width":350,"height":200},"classes":[]},{"id":50,"url":"https:\/\/www.artsjournal.com\/jazzbeyondjazz\/2008\/02\/me_in_the_wire_online.html","url_meta":{"origin":234,"position":5},"title":"Me in The Wire online","author":"Howard Mandel","date":"February 5, 2008","format":false,"excerpt":"Rare articles on John Coltrane, Charles Gayle and Matt Shipp -- by me -- have just been posted online by The Wire, an always-worth-reading UK publication that covers jazz beyond jazz and some music beyond even that. howardmandel.com Subscribe to Jazz Beyond Jazz by Email","rel":"","context":"In "main"","block_context":{"text":"main","link":"https:\/\/www.artsjournal.com\/jazzbeyondjazz\/category\/main"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"","width":0,"height":0},"classes":[]}],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.artsjournal.com\/jazzbeyondjazz\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/234","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.artsjournal.com\/jazzbeyondjazz\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.artsjournal.com\/jazzbeyondjazz\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.artsjournal.com\/jazzbeyondjazz\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/2"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.artsjournal.com\/jazzbeyondjazz\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=234"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/www.artsjournal.com\/jazzbeyondjazz\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/234\/revisions"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.artsjournal.com\/jazzbeyondjazz\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=234"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.artsjournal.com\/jazzbeyondjazz\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=234"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.artsjournal.com\/jazzbeyondjazz\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=234"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}