Norman Lebrecht on shifting sound worlds
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“Presented by Music of Hope”. This is not a Carnegie Hall production.
You are confused. The concert you are referring to is a televised special called “Jackie Evancho and Friends, We are Hope” at the LDS Conference center in Salt Lake City, Utah on November 9th. Jackie will be headlining Tim Janis’s The Christmas Carol Concert at Carnegie Hall on December 5th.
The first line at the Carnegie link says “Presented by Music of Hope”.
“Music of Hope” is the name Tim Janis uses for his productions. He has a composition with that title which was recorded by The New York Philharmonic in 2001. It can be found on youtube.
I hear the second event you mentioned might be nationally televised.
Hope that happens.
Jackie and Carnegie Hall; another beautiful step up the stairway to superstardom for this simply amazing young talent.
Yeah, shame she’s cancelled. Superstar? Don’t think so.
You are using multiple pseudonyms. Your posts will be blocked under other names.
Here ya go….
my all-volunteer orchestra was asked to play at this event. we declined.
Hence, the all volunteer orchestra will remain for ever anonymous, unknown and unrecognized!
That’s not even close to being true or accurate. Not only is this ensemble pretty well-known in NYC, but principal players from the NYPhil and Met Opera are regular (and repeat) soloists. And what level of “fame” do you think backing up this vanity show would bring? Answer: none.
AND…this is an unfortunately common way for concert organizers to avoid paying for professional musicians.
And which fictitious ensemble are you referring to that is so well known to NYC that its name must be buried in secrecy! Does this volunteer ensemble have a name?
I’m not sure what fame you’re looking for your “Volunteer Ensemble” so your answer “None” is something only you would know.
I guess you’re trying to point out that this event is of little or no significance since it doesn’t have your “Volunteer Ensemble” in it … Correct ? Even though we know nothing about the ensemble cast, it is supposedly very very elite …. Correct ?
@AJ – DavidL is rightly pointing out that Mr Janis has rented Carnegie Hall, for not an insubstantial cost, in order to have the right to say he and others are performing at Carnegie Hall. The Hall is most certainly not presenting this performance. It is not part of their season.
Given the high cost of such vanity rentals, performers often attempt to defray further expenses by hiring volunteers. More often than not, the top level volunteer organizations, of which there are many, decline, leaving “orchestras” that are lacking to say the least.
I recall that Ms. Evancho faced the same situation when she sang at Avery. Her management rented the hall at very high cost and brought in an underpaid orchestra in order to provide her a vanity concert. She was not invited to perform, as artists who perform with the NY Phil are.
She looks to be building a good career, but I do no believe handing her bought “accomplishments” before they are earned is the best way for her to learn and develop.
Janey, I knew three of the players at the Avery Fisher concert. All were from the New York Philharmonic, and they told me that it was a well-paid gig. Constantine Kitsopoulos was the conductor for that concert and many of Evancho’s other concerts in 2011. Then she switched to John Mario Di Costanzo in early 2012.
Evancho has no control over what Tim Janis does at Carnegie Hall. I understand that Janis usually books a Christmas concert at Carnegie. Just to correct a date, the first Carnegie concert that Janis invited Evancho to headline would have been December 2, 2010. It is true that her parents withdrew her several weeks before the event, but no one knows the precise reason. She was extraordinarily busy at that time, as her first album (O Holy Night) had been released, and she was making many TV talk show and morning show appearances to promote it, as well as appearing at Christmas concerts, such as NBC’s Rockefeller Center Christmas Tree lighting (Nov. 30, 2010), the National Christmas Tree lighting in Washington, D.C. (Dec. 9, 2010), the Pittsburgh, Christmas parade and others. I think that she simply could not fit it in.
I believe you misunderstand the nature of a “vanity” concert. A vanity concert is one for which there isn’t enough of an audience to cover the costs of giving the concert. Florence Foster Jenkins was notorious for doing these kinds of things. Her singing was so awful that few could stand to listen to her.
Jackie’s concert at Avery, & for that matter Tim Janis’ concert at Carnegie, are very different. They did/will attract enough paying customers to cover the costs of the rentals of the halls & payments for the musicians playing there. These events are no different than other events in other locations where organizers pay venues to hold concerts. The only difference is that Avery & Carnegie are more esteemed halls, especially in the world of classical music. When people want to hear the music, they support the concerts.
The fact is that Jackie is a professional singer with audience members who are willing to pay their hard-earned money to see & hear her sing. Why is this so difficult for some to admit?
It’s fine if you want to condemn the unwashed masses for their unsophisticated tastes. But can’t you just admit that? I’m not fond of all the popularised versions of classical music either, but I recognise that it needs some of this stuff so that the audiences can grow & support classical music in general.
A “vanity show” is a performance seeking exposure at the artist’s expense. I can assure you that Jackie Evancho is very well compensated for her performances.
Perhaps that term has been applied to your unnamed assemblage of musicians and is why it comes so readily to mind.
You missed my point!
I have no idea where you conjured up the Avery Fisher Hall scenario.
Ms Evancho continues on a very successful and well recognized career path whether a few opera stiffs think its “bought accomplishment” or not.
Indeed. I recall that the great pianist Earl Wild was never once presented by Carnegie Hall but gave many concerts there, including some historic appearances. No one called those vanity productions. That would have been completely inappropriate. Earl Wild tickets were in far too much demand for that label to be applicable, as will be the tickets to this Christmas concert, from all appearances.
That unnamed orchestra cited above brings to mind all those 1950s orchestral LPs that said “recorded in Europe” on the cover. The orchestras had fake names and were conducted by pseudonymous conductors. The musicians may well be have been excellent (and some were) but who knew? With this NY orchestra, we are given no names, and even the person touting their praises is pseudonymous.
Jackie Evancho is by now used to performing with the best and most renown Professional orchestras from around the world that have been honored to be a part of Jackie Evancho history. Your little ensemble may not have what it takes right now, but maybe some members will have the fortunate experience to be a part of that history as well someday.
Yeah. The Berliner Philharmoniker even have to beg her to get her to perform with them.
Looks like the Evancho worshipers Google alerts are working. I wonder how many of them realize this is a rental and not a case of Carnegie Hall inviting her to perform there?
To most it doesn’t matter. She gets to perform and we get to hear her perform! That matters!
Why would such a distinction matter to you? It certainly means nothing to those of us who will attend the performance who had the honor in invite Jackie Evancho to Carnegie Hall. It will be Carnegie Hall and it’s patrons that will benefit from Jackie’s attendance, not the other way around.
@Stephen Runnels Precisely how will Carnegie Hall benefit, pray tell?
Precisely the venue establishment itself and its patrons. Make the effort to attend. You will experience my meaning for yourself.
S.R. please write English (‘its patrons’). Btw, in Birmingham, UK, we have so-called concerts between, say, December 15th and January 8th, which the halls use to make a nice bit of money on the side, when ‘proper’ orchestras take a break, from the enthusiasts of seasonal ‘Christmas carols-people in wigs-candles-kiddies-pseudo Viennese jolliness’, which I take great care to avoid. Sir James and his wife are obviously still paying off the mortgage on the Italian villa.
Dear Derek, This concert is a fund raiser for music education which is why we are performing. The Arts and music education in the US and everywhere are in dire straits. We enjoy performing with young players and actually enjoy Christmas music. Please do not judge so harshly- By the way- we do not have a mortgage to pay off on a large italian villa.There are no fess as such for these type of concerts. Some of us just like performing all kinds of music for good purposes. Lady Galway
Thank you, Lady Galway. I believe you have been the recipient of collateral damage in the discussion regarding Ms. Evancho, one of the latest in a long string of discussions. Ironically, the discussions rarely center on Ms. Evancho’s talent, which is obvious, but instead on odd comments here.
I wish you success with the concert and apologize for any offense mine and other comments may have caused.
How do you get to Carnegie Hall? Cash…
Exactly. And a lot of it.
Jackie released a Keek video today that appears to be her with her usual conductor, John Mario diCostanzo, at the piano. Others have said it sounds like they’re in the beginning stages of rehearsing the Flower Duet from Delibes’ Lakmé (perhaps with a slightly out-of-tune piano, LOL). (Personally I don’t know the piece well enough to say for sure, but maybe others here do.)
It isn’t clear when she’ll be singing this.
When I said “today” in the above, I meant Sept 9th. I forgot it was already the 10th across the pond…
A fun recent Keek is here: https://www.keek.com/jackieevancho1/keeks/0yAhdab#HAOfdab
She also posted a Keek of a short segment of Vocalise by Rachmaninoff. She asks for our forbearance because she’s just starting work on it.
She probably won’t do the whole piece or will simplify it, perhaps leaving out some of the ornaments & making other changes, because it’s pretty difficult. Even Fleming had trouble doing it live. Dame Kiri does it, though:
Upon listening, if I’m counting my octaves right, it has a Db6 in it, & that’s one full tone higher than Jackie has sung publicly. We’ll see if she even decides to include it on her new album.
Correction: I should have called that a C#6, because (again, if I’m hearing right) the key seems to be C# minor, i.e. 4 sharps.
The arrogant haughtiness of some here is truly remarkable, but perhaps it’s misplaced in its accusations of Jackie. Perhaps you should be telling Sir James Galway that he’s” embarrassing the Queen” to be participating in such an “unprofessional” event as this.
Don’t you read Mr Lebrecht’s site regularly? Classical music (both orchestral & operatic) is in trouble in lots of places. You people should be grateful there are popularisers out there who try to bring it to the unwashed masses. Maybe Alfie Boe had a point in his comments about opera, eh?
Here are some clues for you: Tim Janis runs these events regularly. Jackie was scheduled to perform in a similar event at Carnegie Hall on 9 Dec 2010, but other events (the AGT tour, recording her O Holy Night EP in time for Christmas, etc) forced her to drop out. Hollie Steel took Jackie’s place.
Do you think Hollie “paid cash” to get there? Did she deserve a “double ugh”? Did someone’s “all volunteer orchestra” decline to play with her?
Jackie Evancho is a successful professional singer who sings with orchestras, musicians & other singers all over the world. I’m terribly sorry that this disturbs you so much, but perhaps you’ll just have to deal with it. And don’t be surprised if Jackie indeed sings with the Berliner Philharmoniker sometime in the future.
” Jackie was scheduled to perform in a similar event at Carnegie Hall on 9 Dec 2010, but other events (the AGT tour, recording her O Holy Night EP in time for Christmas, etc) forced her to drop out”
That’s not true. It’s well known within a circle people in the industry that Jackie’s people intended for her to perform at that event but her parents voluntarily pulled her from the concert when they were informed that she would not be paid for her appearance.
Re: Jackie’s reason for withdrawal from Tim Janis’ Carnegie Hall concert in Dec 2010
Do you have a reliable source for your inside information? I’m not saying it isn’t true, but we all know lots of things are posted on the internet with no reliable attribution.
At that time, Jackie was quite busy recording & promoting O Holy Night. That was their stated reason for withdrawal from the Carnegie event, & it made sense.
If it did have anything to do with money, the Evanchos & Tim Janis appear to have worked out their differences for this year’s show. Jackie sang with him when she was 9, & he was one of her early boosters.
This is Jackie, age 9, singing the Bach-Gounod Ave Maria with Tim Janis on piano:
Re: Planned 2010 Carnegie Hall event
Others have pointed out that I had the date wrong. It was actually 2 Dec 2010.
I am quite certain that Monica Holden does not know what she is talking about. All the Evanchos said publicly was “scheduling conflicts”, and there is no reliable information other than that about the reason for the withdrawal. As I noted above, Jackie Evancho was extraordinarily busy at that time, as her first album (O Holy Night) had been released, and she was making many TV talk show and morning show appearances (and QVC) to promote it, as well as appearing at Christmas concerts, such as NBC’s Rockefeller Center Christmas Tree lighting (Nov. 30, 2010), the National Christmas Tree lighting in Washington, D.C. (Dec. 9, 2010), the Pittsburgh, Christmas parade and others. I think that she simply could not fit it in.
Re: The Evanchos & Tim Janis
It’s true that the scheduling conflicts seemed major during early Dec 2010 given the demands on Jackie’s time. However, some Jackie insiders hinted at bad blood between them & Tim Janis. Could the disagreement have been at least party about money? Maybe, but it also could have been about any number of other things.
In any event, if there was some sort of disagreement between the Evanchos & Tim Janis in Dec 2010, they appear to have worked out their differences for this year’s concert. That has to be a good thing IYAM.
I’m surprised that you would credit such rumors. What “insiders”? This is simply the usual silly fan speculation and is/was not factual at all. There was no documented disagreement between the Evanchos and Janis at all, except that the Evanchos cancelled Jackie’s appearance 5 weeks before the concert. There are absolutely no other known facts, except that Jackie Evancho was extraordinarily busy at that time, and any speculations are simply unfounded.
That would be Lisa Evancho, Jackie’s mom, who used to post on the Amazon forum. At the time she implied they wouldn’t be working with Tim Janis again, but didn’t say why.
Like I say, it’s a good thing that they’ve evidently worked out whatever differences they may or may not have had 3 years ago. Tim Janis was one of Jackie’s early boosters, & personally I’m glad they’ll be in concert again together in December at Carnegie.
“Implied”. “Didn’t say why”. So, again, you don’t know anything. Silly to just spread rumor and speculation.
It was from Lisa Evancho, Jackie’s mother, who used to post at Amazon under L Evancho. You can’t get any closer to Jackie than that. If I had time, I’d find the quote & permalink it for you (though she subsequently deleted many of her comments, probably wisely).
I wasn’t “spreading rumors,” & like I’ve said repeatedly, the important thing is that IF they had differences in the past, they’ve evidently worked them out now. The important thing is that they’re working together again, & that’s good.
I found what Lisa Evancho wrote: “Just wanted to give advanced notice to all jackie fans that she will not be performing with Tim Janis at Carnegie Hall this December. This was not an easy decision and we wish that things could have been different.”
This does not indicate that it had anything to do with money and do not indicate any disagreement with Janis. Again, I would mention that Evancho’s commitments to Columbia Records that week were heavy, especially for a 10-year-old girl, and I would suggest that Lisa Evancho is simply indicating her awareness of the fans’ likely disappointment and trying to be sympathetic. The Evanchos have never given any reason for the withdrawal other than “scheduling conflicts”.
I agree that it will be good to see Jackie Evancho at Carnegie Hall, and I will certainly be there. Here is Evancho singing “Believe”. The video has a fun ending. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r0zWdwa0bzA
Do you have a link for the Lisa Evancho comment you posted? I do know she said that, but I’d appreciate knowing where you found it.
Here is a partial list of orchestras that have accompanied Jackie Evancho’s solo concerts
Atlanta Symphony Orchestra – three times
Baltimore Symphony Orchestra
The Chamber Orchestra of Philadelphia
Colorado Symphony Orchestra
Dallas Symphony Orchestra
Fresno Grand Opera Orchestra
Naples Philharmonic Orchestra
N.J. Symphony Orchestra
Omaha Symphony Orchestra
Pittsburgh Opera Orchestra
Pittsburgh Symphony Orchestra
Ravinia Festival Orchestra
Rhode Island Philharmonic Orchestra
San Diego Symphony
Sun Valley Orchestra
Tacoma Symphony Orchestra
Tokyo Philharmonic Orchestra – twice
She is currently scheduled to sing with:
Fort Collins Symphony (October)
Oregon Symphony (November)
@Sam Please provide a season brochure for these symphonies (not interested in the pops or festival orchestras) containing the information about Ms. Evancho’s program.
She sings 12 or 13 songs from her albums. I don’t have brochures for you, but here is a review from this year’s concert with Baltimore Symphony Orchestra that describes her selections: http://www.mdtheatreguide.com/2013/05/concert-review-jackie-evancho-songs-of-the-silver-screen-tour-with-bso-at-meyerhoff/
If you Google around, or look at the symphonies’ websites, you could find more info, or you could call the symphonies and ask for their season brochures. The exact dates of Evancho’s concerts are listed here (2011 to 2012): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jackie_Evancho_concert_tours#Tour_dates_2
and here (2012 to 2013): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jackie_Evancho_concert_tours#Tour_dates_3
These do not include her concerts with Tim Janis, David Foster, Tony Bennett, Hvorostovsky and Sumi Jo or José Carreras, or any of her charity or private concerts.
Sorry, I don’t have any more time do research for you.
Checking the first symphony on the list here is one of several mentions on their website:
“Singing sensation Jackie Evancho, who performed with the Orchestra before a sold-out Atlanta Symphony Hall in August, returns this June to Verizon Wireless Amphitheatre at Encore Park.”
Sam’s list does have one error. Jackie has actually performed *four* times with the Atlanta Symphony Orchestra.
2013/14 season announcement:
A quotation from the above regarding their summer series:
“The past five seasons of classical concerts have featured Robert Spano and the Atlanta Symphony Orchestra in an array of programs including a concert-staged production of Puccini’s La bohème, Fourth of July spectaculars, concerts that combine music and video imagery such as BBC’s Planet Earth, and a free concert for the community. Guest artists have included Jackie Evancho, Garrick Ohlsson, Robert McDuffie, Julie Andrews …
I expect you will now narrow your definition of “brochure”.
It is not necessary to narrow anything. A claim was made that Jackie Evancho “is by now used to performing with the best and most renown[ed] Professional orchestras from around the world that have been honored to be a part of Jackie Evancho history.”
I asked for links to the season brochures – there is one definition of a season brochure – it lists all artists performing with the full orchestra and its MD during the season. I have no interest, for these purposes, in pop concerts designed to produce income during summer months, under a different MD and with different players, as I stated. This is not to say many pop orchestras are not wonderful with excellent players. The claim was best and most renowned full orchestra.
A list of orchestras was provided – none are the “best and most renown[ed] Professional orchestras in the world.” Your link leads to an announcement of a summer pop concert.
Has Ms. Evancho ever performed with a major top orchestra during the main season? If not, such ridiculous claims should not be made – thus saving everyone much trouble here.
There was only one concert that brochures were printed for and I don’t remember which one it was now. I have attended both of her concerts in the Dallas/Ft. Worth area and neither one had brochures or Song lists.
Thank you for the information. When I spoke of season brochure, I meant the full brochure listing all concerts in the fall to spring season of the orchestra. These are the concerts for which the full orchestra plays. During the summer, the orchestra has other arrangements, often with different or rearranged players and a guest conductor. Since claims were made about “world renowned” orchestras, I attempted to determine what types of orchestras were backing Ms. Evancho. It is clear from the information, these are summer pop arrangements. Again, often wonderful playing, but not the primary orchestras.
Janey, I agree that it is not true to say that Evancho has performed with the most famous or best-known orchestras in the world (just as it is not true to say that the list of orchestras above includes only summer programs or pops programs — above I linked you to lists of exact dates annotated with references to news articles for each). However, she has performed with some of the best orchestras in the U.S., including:
Atlanta Symphony Orchestra (November 25, 2012, among other dates)
Baltimore Symphony Orchestra (May 18, 2013)
Pittsburgh Symphony Orchestra (March 12, 2013)
That’s an extraordinary start for such a young performer.
I believe it is correct that she performed with some variation of these orchestras outside the regular season.
If Ms. Evancho had performed with Marin Alsop, then I would stand up and say, “well done.” I would do the same for another renowned guest conductor or even a BSO associate conductor. But she has not.
I believe she has done extraordinary things, but not what has been claimed in this case.
As far as I know, Jackie, like other artists, has her fee…. Which means, she gets paid her fee …. You can search the Internet what her fee is …. It’s not small change I can assure you :).
As a matter of fact, if you wanted to hire her for a performance, you’d pay more for her than you would for some well renowned opera singers …. Her advertised fee is higher than them in some cases. :). The difference …. She’s only 13 years old…. The rest are at least 2 and a half times her age.
As predicted you just spent 184 words torturing out a definition that is sufficiently narrow for your purposes. Personally I was rather surprised that the ASO uses Jackie Evancho in their general publicity and lists her ahead of Garrick Ohlsson, Robert McDuffie, and Julie Andrews. Not bad for a 12 (now 13) year old.
@BobM The issue we face is that you have no knowledge of the meaning of “season” or “season brochure”. Of course, my comment makes little sense if you are ignorant of the terminology. My best wishes to Ms. Evancho. I have little doubt she understands the meaning of those terms, which I have used identically through all of my comments.
Actually I am quite familiar with the terminology which is why I was able to predict your response before you made it. The point that you do not understand is that your point is irrelevant. Ms Evancho has been accompanied by several very fine orchestras from around the world. And these orchestras not only have no objection to their name being associated with her some of them actually feature it.
On a side note the top billing seems to be spreading:
The comment was the “most renowned orchestras in the world that have been honored to be a part of Jackie Evancho history.” I see not a single full orchestra, of any sort. I have made the point I intended. Thank you for your conversation.
Oh Lord, and one of those keeks has her singing part of the Rachmaninoff “Vocalise”. It’s madness for untrained voices to sing these diffcult works. The raison d’être of the Vocalise is just that, to join the tones in a seemless legato. There was no evidence of even trying for that, just the same mincemeat approach as in any of the carved up operatic arias pandering to the lowest common denominator of the listening public.
I agree that keek was pretty bad and Jackie herself said it was. I don’t know why such an inferior thing like that was put out. It puts Jackie in a bad light and she should have put her foot down about it. I know I would have if I were her. But trust me when I say if it gets on the new album it will be, maybe not up to opera snob standards, but very good at the least.
Oh yes CJ if it does get on the new album I hope you will offer your analysis of her performance.
As the sour cabbage juice remonstrations seep back into discussions about Jackie, we must again be reminded of the tremendous amount of precise and loving attention given to Jackie and her career from her parents, her doctors, vocal coaches, and everyone else directly involved in nurturing a growing talent. It is exciting for her supporters to be made aware of her ability and readiness to make Vocalise a part of the next Jackie Evancho experience. Even after following Jackie’s career these past years we are still amazed at just how incredibly advanced she is musically.
You wouldn’t recognize nurturing a singing talent if you walked into and tripped over it. Those few lines of the Vocalise don’t show any effort at all in actually developing the voice, instead milking the same tiresome gimmicks over and over. Advanced operatic arias and duets lie in territory that should not be entered into without proper training. I said before that pop, musical theatre and ballads can be done OK with that technique or lack of it, in other words always needing amplification. This new incursion into the heavy stuff really stretches the limit of how much crooning opera one can take. It might actually land this time like a lead balloon.
The only thing that’s landed like a lead balloon so far are the dire predictions about JE’s voice and career by a handful of embittered critics.
Meanwhile , JE continues to break new ground much to the delight of fans and audiences alike.
What new ground is she breaking?
Continue following Jackie’s career as you have been for the last three years and you will eventually see what I’m referring to. Some of us see it early, others take a little more time but eventually we’ll all see it. :)!
I might add that that’s not some piano-playing hack who’s working with Jackie on the Rach Vocalise & Delibes Flower Duet. It’s John Mario diCostanzo, Jackie’s usual conductor. Here is a summary of some of what he’s done:
He’s worked mostly with 2nd & 3rd-level symphonies & opera companies in the US, so I’m not claiming he’s at the top of his field, but he is a competent professional. It says he has served as a judge in several operatic vocal competitions. He also works with opera singers as a vocal coach, although reading between the lines, it sounds like his main expertise might be Italian language coaching. (Maybe he’ll help Jackie on that…)
The point is that he’s a serious working professional in the field, & if Jackie was doing something outrageously horrible, he’d do something about it: either correct it or quit. If what they’re doing is rapidly wrecking Jackie’s voice, it wouldn’t look so good on his résumé in future, would it? Or what, are you just going to accuse him of being another reckless money-grubber? I think not.
Lastly, those keeks & comments make it clear she’s just starting to work on these pieces. She might never even perform them in public. She basically asked us for patience. Even you could do that, couldn’t you?
Please — do post for all of us to see a name, a link to a public performance, news article, successful audition, or anything at all to do with anyone having availed themselves of your learned direction.
Opera for dummies
The technique is not anywhere near developed enough to attempt the Flower Duet or the Vocalise. It was also inadequate for Nessun Dorma, O Mio Babbino, Ombra Mai Fu, Ave Maria and any song or aria that requires legato. This is what singers learn patiently to do, year by year, joining the tones in the flow of air as on a violin bow. There is no evidence that this is being attended to nor even being regarded as important which is way past the time when it should have been taken care of.
Oh so you agree it was inferior but rest assured that everything released passes intense scrutiny. This may well be a trial balloon to ascertain how the public would react to this new sensation.
As always, the sour petulance against Jackie’s incredible voice and denigration of her vocal coaches, her training, and even against her family’s support in her burgeoning career is somewhat humorous to those of us who allow the experience of enjoying that incredible voice and appreciating such an amazing talent that grows every time we watch and listen. It is also sad that a miserable few are compelled to find flaws in a young girl that has the ability to draw such emotion from so many.
@Laptop, Coaches and singing teachers have different functions. The former teach music and text. So they do not encroach upon the the territory of the voice teacher by influencing the technique in any way. That is why they are called repetiteurs because they repeat the material until it is learned.
There is no evidence or announcement for that matter of any singing teacher or intensive serious study. This lack is mind-boggling given the extent and length of the career so far. Intuition, emotion and playing by ear can ride on a considerable amount of talent that has already been recognized. But there is NO little miracle that defies all the need for training that even a Caruso and Callas couldn’t dispense with. It seems that this mythology of emerging whole from the head of Jove is to be propagated as long as possible to draw money and fame from.
The other reason for avoiding normal training is the distinct possibility that the murky timbre would disappear, revealing itself as highly contrived. She would sound her age instead similar to the pitch and quality of her speaking voice.
It’s possible or even probable that the wrong choice was made to keep things this way because training might have really catapulted her to the level of a Deanna Durbin. Too bad, I’d say, together with the risk of ruining the voice completely.
Don’t hold your breath for an announcement that may not be forthcoming. For what? Why does it have to be announced?
You assume that because a coach / teacher hasn’t been announced that means one doesn’t exist. May not be the case.
Good point about singing teacher vs coach. However, just because the Evanchos haven’t named her singing teacher publicly doesn’t mean she doesn’t have one. They don’t always communicate with the public, even on basic things like confirming appearance dates. There have certainly been blogosphere rumors of a new singing teacher. The best way to tell, assuming they don’t change their minds about revealing any possible new teacher’s name, would be to see how her performances change over the next year or two.
You have mentioned that you believe Jackie is being encouraged by others to sing in lower keys. I finally found this passage in the long version of the EPK for Dream With Me. Jackie is talking to David Foster & requests a lower key. They don’t mention what song they’re talking about, but the impetus for a lower key clearly comes from Jackie, not from Foster, Jackie’s mother, Yvie Burnett or anyone else around Jackie. The passage begins ~4:28 in this video (it’s cued; hope it works):
As far as spilling from the head of Zeus, that’s not an uncommon thing for performers to claim: Rosa Ponzillo (Ponselle) certainly tried to claim she’d had “no training.” Also, in an obscure interview Jackie did years ago, in Sept 2009, she said she’d been seeing a singing teacher for a year & a half. So saying Jackie’s had “no training” is a bit of an exaggeration at least.
Remember, whenever Jackie wants to sing with a different timbre, she does it. She can sing with a “pure” child-like, “white” timbre all the way to a “smoky” adult-sounding timbre, & everything in between. She has control over it & sings different things differently.
OPERA SNOBS are the most disgusting creatures ever to take a breath on this earth
@Laptop So why all this waffling? If there is a singing teacher, not just repetiteur, he or she can come out to take the praise or blame as the case may be. OK, at this stage she may feel uncomfortable in a higher key and say so, but shouldn’t an EXPERT be consulted? After all this time there should be no changes in register or choppy phrasing. Here is an example of the ease and smooth legato a young adolescent can and should sing with: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4VWyrrmaqn
Why all the waffling by the Evanchos? Why haven’t they consulted an expert?
Well, they HAVE consulted experts. Among others, they consulted Lorraine Nubar, who runs Juilliard’s young singers program, privately, & saw her at least twice. If you’ll recall, that was misinterpreted here, at least partly due to an OTT Jackie fan who exaggerated the situation, & people wrongly assumed she was actually enrolled as a student at Juilliard (which would have violated their 14 year old minimum age rule for singers). This was publicly denied by the school, & the whole incident was quite embarrassing, to say the least.
Jackie’s mother Lisa also used to post on public blogs, but I think they came to the realisation that she was being too open. These things, plus the general tendency of the Evanchos to be reticent now about publicly releasing information (probably at least partly because of Jackie’s age), may contribute to the “waffling.” Typically, they’re the last to confirm even relatively simple things like upcoming performances.
Unless they change their current practices, we may not know the name of any new singing teacher, for a while at least. We may be stuck with just observing her over the next year or two.
Just to clarify, I’ve always been pro-teacher & pro-coach for all performers, certainly including Jackie. I’d favour this help regardless of what genre she eventually chooses to sing.
“Why all the waffling?”
Who knows …but the bigger question is who cares. Perhaps the few opera officianados / teachers / vocal coaches etc. The majority are fans of her music and can’t tell legato from leg and wouldn’t care even if they could. Apparently, Carreras, Sumi Jo, Dmitri didn’t care and neither did Susan Boyle, Brightman or Streisand!
Should an expert be consulted .. Yes! There may be several being consulted but once again of little or no consequence to most fans.
She doesn’t want to be an opera singer regardless of whether anyone thinks she is or not!
The link you provided somehow doesn’t work so like most of the unwashed masses we will remain oblivious as to what miracles a smooth legato will do for our listening pleasure….not that we missed it to begin with.
@AJ With the price of water and soap still being relatively cheap, what is the problem for fans keeping clean?
You’re right, all the above singers you mentioned don’t really care about Jackie’s technique. They care principally about their own careers and promoting themselves even if it means having to piggyback on the popularity of a 13 year old. The cited keeks show that there is no improvement at all so probably there is no teacher. A real pity, because she has the possibility of singing much better than she does now.
Amazing that after three years there are still odors of sour cabbages, self-aggrandizement, and spite against arguably the most wonderful voice this century. Jackie’s career so far and how her management, vocal coaches, friends, fans, and family have supported this amazing young girl is pretty much summed up in this short video clip.
And why is piggybacking on the popularity of a 13 year old such a bad thing? Those singers are very successful in their own rights, financially very well off and could certainly do without the 13 year old.
The cited keeks are a huge delight for fans because it shows that she will continue on the course she has always stated she likes …. Classical Crossover. If she sounds that good in practice, God knows how good she’s going to be when she records in a studio or sings live. I’ll predict her first concert on Oct 11th is going to be a huge success. How about you?
You’re right, Stephen. It does sum up: considerable raw talent but also straining, even bending over to squeeze out the tones, flat at times, all in all making a cheap melodrama of a piece that no one including the performer has a clue what the words mean, so syllables are chopped up whenever the breath gives out and not according to any musical rhyme or textual reason.
Ah, yes; the wizened cabbage basking in the self-awareness of what she speaks against all those fans of Jackie Evancho, including, but not limited to the millions of actual music lovers, professional singers, musicians, producers, conductors, and a very special group of individuals in this clip who, like myself, feel pity for anyone who not only relishes in picking apart such an incredible talent that is Jackie Evancho, but then feels compelled to infect everyone else with their negative obsession.
Jackie gives to her audience a transcendent purity of voice, poise and maturity rarely experienced in the music world. Those of you who stand outside the theatre in judgment looking in will never understand what we inside are experiencing.
Fortunately for the rest of us, since we can’t tell or care about the chopping, straining or breath control we can relax, sit back and enjoy the music and Jackie’s voice while a few opera officianados chomp at the bit and cringe and squirm at the perceived annihilation of an opera piece :)!
@AJ No one said she is not gifted or she doesn’t have a charming persona onstage. Improvement is neither wanted nor needed to cater to mainly an above middleaged audience who glom onto an adult sound coming from a young girl singing their sort of music (not much in synch with her own age group), and who are not very musically educated, you know the kind who prefer the Readers’ Digest version rather than full length novels. But please don’t imagine that there is ANY way the Flower Duet or the Vocalise are even on the radar. The difficulty and range are too wide to accomodate all those little tricks that put over the other somewhat easier arias.
As with anything else you are fixated on the idea that JE’s main draw is because of her age. It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to figure out that because of the genre she sings, you are not going to find screaming and swooning teenagers at her concerts. You do understand that don’t you?
The readers’s digest version is much more interesting for the casual or not so musically educated than sitting there and subjecting one’s ears to the full length version of opera that not everyone can stomach.
Please understand, When JE sings the Flower Duet or Vocalise, the fans are going to love it whether she sings it in operatic or pop style. No one expected her to sing Nessun Dorma at age 10 / 11. And as far as most fans are concerned, no female adult or child has done it better since then.
AJ, the words to Nessun Dorma could have been exchanged with O Mio Babbino or Ombra mai Fu, scrambled like eggs or run backwards interpersed with Buon Compleanno Mio Gatto and no one including the performer would have known the difference and cared. The same for any bleating tenor who gets his minute and a half on A or BGT. “Wow, oooh ahhh, that was FANtastic” with the whole audience screaming and rising to their feet.
This was NOT the case with Deanna Durbin who did sing ND, in her own way quite charming and even convincing for a woman.
There has been meanwhile a cheapening of taste that would not appreciate DD these days, rather wants to be titillated with cheap melodramatic caricatures of opera. That is the target audience and probably there is nothing anyone can do about it. An older woman doing what Jackie does would not have the same effect although singers like Sarah Brightman are still
bravely carrying on…
Exactly, no one cares to that extent! Folks such as yourself, who make a living out of opera and teaching, understandably care for the purity of the art ….. But the rest simply want to be entertained …. Therefore the dwindling group of purists …. Continue to dwindle !
Deana Durbin sang it well, regardless of the manner in which she did. So did Jackie …. !
Sarah Brightman doesn’t need any sympathy … She’s carved a huge career for herself and has been enormously successful! (Don’t know how you went from “Sarah B. doesn’t know how to sing ….. To … Sarah B is bravely carrying on! ” in a matter of a few months).
The cheapening of taste is actually a change of taste …. Its a sign of changing times ! No mystery about it!
Huh?? You think that when Deanna Durbin sang that English translation of Nessun Dorma the words were easier to understand than when Jackie sang the Italian lyrics? Seriously???
I’ve probably listened to DD sing ND scores, if not hundreds, of times, & for more than half the song, I have NO CLUE what she’s saying. No clue – & American English is my first language. I can hear a FEW words when she’s singing her lower notes, but that’s it. I’ve even tried searching on the web for those lyrics, unsuccessfully, because she’s SO hard to understand. I know the Italian lyrics, & their meaning, quite well, & gather that DD’s translation was based on the original Italian, but that still doesn’t help me hear her. I even listened to it again, just now, & although her voice is beautiful, I can still only pick out a few words here & there.
OTOH, Jackie’s lyrics are at least comprehensible, & this is something she’s been working on to improve. She’s clearly better now than she was in the past.
Perhaps you’ve heard clearer recordings of DD, or you somehow found those written lyrics, or you’re just better than I am at hearing them. If so, please enlighten us. Until then, I’ll remain thoroughly confused about the words Ms Durbin sang in Nessun Dorma.
AJ, Gratifying that you finally admitted what you did, that no one in your camp cares. So please don’t dredge up names of serious artists or orchestras who may have appeared alongside or accompanied Jackie but are not endorsing her which is something totally different.
I really won’t go into SB’s technique or lack of it. For this detail doesn’t matter to her fans either but sometimes one has to bravely hold a high note…
True to your nature, you only see what you want to see.
Your gratification is extremely short lived when you realize that what I and others of my kind don’t care about is opinions from anonymous self proclaimed opera experts :).
Do we care about Jackie’s welfare and general health …. Of course we do like any fan of any artist.
By the way, any serious artist that performs with her is endorsing her as a serious artist and professional …. They aren’t doing it because they feel sorry for her….JE makes good money on any performance she does as far as we can tell. And here is another fact that going to cause you nausea. She sings her repertoire ….. Not what Sumi Jo, Dmitri, Carreras etc want her to sing. She gets equal billing with the greats….. :)!
Thought you might find this interesting. A tweet from Jackie responding to a question from a poster about opera! The tweet is dated September 24 2013.
@BrinaFourquints I’m not an opera singer. I’m a classical crossover singer. Opera takes a lifetime of study to do well.
12:25pm – 24 Sep 13
It appears that despite the gnawing fears of some in the operatic community, Jackie has no clandetine plans to overrun the opera world with her style of music.
@AJ I am not interested in the statement but it is revealing. It says in effect that it doesn’t matter how opera should be done, I do it in my way and that should be enough for everyone, mistakes and all. Well, it is enough for the uneducated public, nothing high class in it or comparable to young singers who do work and get it right.
No it doesn’t mean that it doesn’t matter how opera should be done. It seemly means the public who cater to Jackie’s music don’t really care how opera is done. You keep missing the point that Jackie is not an opera singer so she doesn’t need to adhere to operatic standards.
Yes, Jackie does it her way mistakes and all and everyone and anyone has the right to listen to it or walk away.
Why spend so much time and effort on trackiing someone you think isn’t worth the attention … and yet you give her so much attention ! :).
Talking about melodrama…ever see Cecilia Bartoli perform !
CJ: “It says in effect that it doesn’t matter how opera should be done, I do it in my way and that should be enough for everyone, mistakes and all.”
HSL: Huh??? It says nothing of the sort. It shows nothing but respect for the tremendous craft & art of opera, & the dedication required to sing it correctly. How could you possibly interpret it as anything disrespectful?
Jackie doesn’t sing opera. CC fans care mostly about whether the sound is beautiful, rather than whether the technique is perfect. You need excellent technique to sing opera properly. Of course I’d personally like to see perfect technique in CC too, but it’s less important than the simple beauty of the sound. Perhaps you’d accuse CC fans of being too emotional & not intellectual enough, but that’s the way most of them approach the music: emotions first.
@Laptop Almost every time JE does Ombra Mai Phooey. she tries to hold the long first note, often flat, runs out of breath and then blurts out a double rr which is very incorrect Italian. She used to do the same with Bab(b)ino Car-ro. But I wasn’t talking so much about the pronunciation which is usually bad (I don’t only speak Italian but coach singers) but the basic approach is the same everytime. There is the same put on expression. the arm wrenching, anything to evoke melodrama and virtually nothing to differentiate one text from another, that is why I said they can be interchangeable.
This is the art of interpretation that singers spend long hours learning, even adolescents in Juilliard or other top music schools. But as AJ admitted the public doesn’t care so a superficial approach is enough for them.
Jackie often pronounces the single R between vowels incorrectly as an RR, but in “Ombra,” the R follows a consonant, so it most assuredly IS appropriate to roll it strongly. If you’re talking about “cara ed amabile,” Jackie sometimes pronounces it more like “carra,” & she doesn’t get the following diphthong (“…a ed…”) quite right, but she pronounces “ombra” correctly. Before or after a consonant, the Italian R is strongly rolled, just as RR is strongly rolled. You do know this, right?
I’ve never heard Jackie “run out of breath” on the long introductory note of OMF. If she did, she’d have to breathe between “om” & “bra.” She doesn’t. Nor have I heard her breathe anywhere in the middle of the 1st line. It’s true that her pitch control on G5 or higher hasn’t always been perfect since she entered adolescence, but it never “goes flat”; it may start that way, but she always corrects it. In general, despite the challenging changes of adolescence, Jackie’s pitch control remains very good.
If you paid attention to Jackie’s career, you’d be aware of the fact that her arm motions peaked around December 2010, & they’ve been more or less steadily diminishing ever since. They’re much more subtle now. I’m surprised you don’t know this.
You never answered my question about Deanna Durbin’s English translation of Nessun Dorma. Like I said, I have NO CLUE what she’s singing during most of the song. I can hear the words at the beginning, on some of the low notes & at the very end, but for most of the middle of the song, especially when she’s in falsetto register (i.e. above the passaggio), I have no clue. You said you could hear her words clearly, so please enlighten me. I could go thru & post the Italian lyrics & explain exactly where I can’t hear what she’s saying if that would help.
BTW, IIRC you’ve also said you believe that with proper teaching, Jackie would “drop the smoky pseudo-adult timbre” or something like that (please forgive & correct me if I’m mis-paraphrasing you). The truth is that if you don’t want her to sing that way, simply ask her. She has control over her timbre & can sing with the “white” timbre of a child anytime she wants. I’ve posted vids that showed this in the past, just as other vids showed that Jackie, not those around her, is the one who requested that some songs be pitched in lower keys.
Addendum: I’ve also not heard Jackie sing D5 out of key, sharp or flat.
@AJ Most of the time I am answering posts like yours that come in the form of questions. No one has really come up with a good definition of Classical Crossover but your descriptions come as close as one can get. It’s cherry picking and mining classical music for cheap melodramatic effects and emotional titillation of an audience. Please don’t pretend, any of you, that there is great or even good singing here because you just admitted it is not important.
Correction …. It is your opinion that is not important. Obviously Jackie’s singing is very important to fans and great singing as far as they are concerned. But that shouldn’t bother you. We are after all fans.
You are under no obligation to answer posts that come in the form of questions.
By the way …. Repeating my question…talking about melodrama, have you heard Cecilia Bartoli Perform?
I’m not an expert on Music classifications so I’ll leave the definitions to pundits liked yourself to define classical crossover.
If you think Jackie’s performance of “Lovers”, “To Believe”, The Lord’s Prayer” etc from her Dream with Me in Concert performances are cheap, melodramatic effects, then I’m sorry to say you’re sadly out of touch with reality and the public at large! Even the most stoic and severest of critics admit those are exceptional performances by any stretch of the imagination, by any artist let alone a child of barely 11 years of age … But what do they know, right ?
We can argue over semantics all day long. Jackie will never measure up to the standards that you so vigorously uphold …. Her fans don’t care … about YOUR standards…..it’s that simple.
About Bartoli, I like her, love her over the top melodramatic, exaggerated and at times unbecoming and downright funny facial expressions and hand gestures. I couldn’t care less if she was a half baked product or fully baked cake …. She’s the queen of Melodrama … A point you’re trying to dodge and which was the gist of my comment about melodrama! You want to see melodrama, you go see Bartoli not Jackie.
Bartoli is a consummate professional and well loved and respected in opera circles …. Whether everyone likes her style and repertoire is a different story! Different strokes for different folks.
@AJ You’re the one who said that quality is not important: “It seemly (sic) means the public who cater to Jackie’s music don’t really care how opera is done…Yes, Jackie does it her way mistakes and all.”
About Bartoli, first and foremost. she is a consummate singer who has respect for the art and the material. I can’t really think of any serious performing musicians who would be smug about presenting half-baked products, unless the purpose is something else like promoting ‘music for peace’ that tends to be
The test for a great singer is not so much by watching them but blanking out the screen, or closing one’s eyes to merely listen. Jackie’s appeal is based heavily on the visuals. The operatic arias only with the sound on are very substandard. Most of Bartoli’s live performances can be cut and made directly into CD’s. Her singing is THAT good.
@Laptop In this recent recording she is flat quite a few times and the arms don’t really know what to do. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dSciN09eYxA
The latter could be corrected with a good coach. Meanwhile it seems by now she figured out to negotitate the perilous transitions between mixed and head voice that is troublesome somewhere around a C#5. But it is only a compromise. The passage is not seamless the way it should be, the main reason being the middle octave is too heavy. This would disappear with a good teacher.
@Laptop I don’t know what your problem is with Durbin in Nessun Dorma. She sings the aria higher than the usual tenor key (and Jackie’s version of course). Her high C6 is simply stunning but so much of the aria anyway in this key is in a high tessitura. It is not expected that much text can be gleaned from stratospheric notes and composers who know the voice don’t tax the singers with an anti-acoustic approach by having them enunciate up there. But ‘will be mine’ at the end is very understandable. The quality of the sound is bell-like ringing throughout the range. She seems at ease while singing, not straining (although this may have been pretaped). The expression is consistent with the message, not something tacked on. She gets a 10 out of 10 like Comaneci back then in the Olympics.
As for rolling an r after a consonant in Italian, one does what is physically possible. It actually wasn’t so much the brra that bothered me but its not
relating to the first tone, as though they were separate syllables. This problem of color change is magnified when going from middle to high.
Re Deanna Durbin’s Nessun Dorma,
To put your technical jargon into layman’s terms …. “Yeah you can’t understand what Deanna is singing”! Which is exactly what Laptop said as I understand it.
As I ALREADY said, I think Durbin’s Nessun Dorma is very beautiful; that’s why I’ve listened to it so many times. I just can’t hear the words. And from what you say here, neither can you. Personally, I often have trouble hearing many lyrics from many singers in multiple genres, even in languages I know well. The internet helps, because many lyrics are on line; I’ve just never been able to find the translation that DD sang in that movie.
I know what key DD uses for ND, a half tone higher than the usual tenor key. She begins in Ab & ends in Eb, & like you say, the “ce” of the 3rd “vincerò” is a C6, the highest note. Obviously I know that lyrics are harder to hear with higher notes, if for no other reason than smaller amounts of air pass thru the vocal apparatus during higher notes. And yes, when Jackie was singing ND (more than 2 years ago, a long time for a young person), she sang it a minor 3rd lower than written; she began in E & ended in B.
Once again: I’m NOT criticising, belittling, putting down or disrespecting DD in any way. I’ve always loved her voice, including her ND. But like others, I simply can’t hear the words she’s singing in that song. Saying that is not “putting DD down” because I am a fan of Jackie Evancho. That’s an unfair accusation from you.
As for Jackie’s OMF in Taiwan, there are certainly several “Persian flaws” where her pitch control isn’t perfect. The initial D5 is briefly flat, but she quickly corrects it. I’ve heard lots of singers with inferior pitch control to Jackie’s here, including those with operatic training. Jackie’s whole performance there was somewhat sub-par, as she & her fans have acknowledged publicly. The jet lag, travel & unfamiliar conductor were all problems, & she said afterwards that she wanted to wait a few years before attempting another trip to Asia to sing. And her arm motions were relatively subtle that night.
As to Jackie’s pronunciation of “ombra,” it’s correct. There are correct & incorrect ways to pronounce Italian (despite regional differences in pronunciation), & Jackie incorrectly rolls her R’s between vowels too much. But criticising her for other words that she pronounces correctly is a bit unfair IYAM.
Again, if you don’t like Jackie’s timbre, ask her to change it. She can & will.
@AJ No, objective measurable standards like control and support of breath, pitch, consistency in range, diction, phrasing (not chopping up syllables), appropriate expression showing understanding of the text – these are NOT mine but in any voice examination.
For fans, here are the standards they look for when listening to Jackie:
A beautiful voice that is pleasing to their ears and induces a strong stirring emotional response. Those who have attended her concerts will tell you the experience intensifies considerably when you see her live!
Your technical analysis may have merit if you are teaching a class on vocal technique, otherwise it’s a foreign language to most. Unless one has a desire to learn the new language, it has little or no relevance to the current mode of communication.
@AJ Evancholists always have to put down others in order to justify their own opinions. Durbin and Bartoli are not good enough for you? Pathetic!
And there is nothing wrong with Deanna’s diction.
You conveniently ignored my comment that I like Bartoli and love her melodramatic expressions!
How can that be construed as Bartoli not being good enough for me ?
When I want to listen to opera, I’ll listen to Bartoli, Fleming, Pavarotti, and a host of others. I don’t understand everything they sing but neither do most listeners. It’s not important do me. Their voices and emotional delivery is what matters to me. Same goes for Deanna Durbin!
When I want to listen to classical crossover, I’ll listen to Jackie, Sarah B, Bocelli etc.
You seem to be experiencing some difficulty …. Is it comprehension or frustration ?
@AJ No difficulty at all in maneuvering your slippery arguments. You singled out “melodrama” from a host of otherwise positive characteristics of Bartoli which you probably couldn’t recognize anyway but saying that puts her on an equal footing with Jackie – absolutely NOT!
@laptop I can understand most of Durbin’s words in ND. I could transcribe them but I happen to be busy.
I said what bothered me in the Ombra Mai Fu was the lack of connection between syllables. In at least one recording she runs out of air on the first note and blurts out the next syllable, the reason the r sounded so prominent. It didn’t match the first note.
Anyone who charges up to $200 a ticket or even more doesn’t have the right to make such excuses as you cite. Apparently there is a private jet so the team is spared the usual inconveniences.
As for the changing the timbre, why kill a cash cow?
You love to make things up!
Jackie average ticket price range from $65 to $130. There was one concert where the price was over $200.
The only time a private chartered plane was used was when she performed at the National Breakfast for the president!
But even if all you said about Jackie’s wealth was true …. So what ?!
I attempted to transcribe the English lyrics Deanna Durbin sings in Nessun Dorma, leaving blank underscores for the lyrics I can’t hear. The English lyrics are under the original Italian lyrics, line by line. Perhaps someone else can hear what I can’t. Again, this is not a criticism of DD, because I love her voice. I just can’t hear the words, especially on her high notes. Here are some typical vids, the 2nd supposedly a “remastered” version with her voice a bit more prominent.
Deanna Durbin – Nessun Dorman translation:
Nessun dorma x 2
None shall sleep tonight x 2
Tu pure o principessa nella tua fredda stanza
Until the dawn’s revealing and the _______for answer (?)
Guardi le stelle che tremano d’amore e di speranza
________________for none shall be my heaven (?), my bliss for heaven
Ma il mio mistero è chiuso in me
__________balancing (?) hope for love
Il nome mio nessun saprà, no, no
Sulla tua boca lo dirò, quando la luce splenderà
____________________________of morning shall call his name
Ed il mio baccio scioglerà il silencio che ti fa mia
____________________________sunrise when he’ll be mine
Il nome suo nessun saprà, e noi dovrem ahime morir, morir
_________balancing (?) hope for love __________________
Dilegua o notte, tramontate stelle, tramontate stelle
All’alba vincerò, vincerò, vincerò!
At daybreak he’ll be mine, mine at last, at last!
I’m baffled by your logic !
Bartoli is an opera singer …. Jackie is NOT! How can they possibly be on an equal footing! Exactly what would the purpose be in my putting them on an equal footing?
I singled out melodrama because that is Bartoli’s most notable feature that sets her apart from other opera singers … She is well known for her expressive and emotive and at times over the top facial expressions.
Besides, you pointed that out as one of Jackie’s characteristics and the melodrama that you attribute to Jackie pales in comparison to Bartoli’s contrived and over the top performance. Are you saying that you don’t agree?
I said nothing about Bartoli being better or worse than Jackie…..the comparison would be ludicrous!
@AJ We have all been through this before on other threads. You and others say Jackie is not an opera singer, so WHY is she singing opera? And why wouldn’t the criteria be applicable to her as well?
Sorry, Bartoli has much more than melodrama, even a footnote to her consummate singing, but JE in opera, that is about all she has to offer.
Why did Pavorotti, Fleming, Carreras and a host of others sing Christmas carols …. Because they like to sing …….
Jackie sings what she wants to sing and in whatever manner she wants to sing. Try stopping her.
Why are you so upset about her singing three operatic arias out of her 70+ song repertoire. Singing three arias doesn’t make her an opera singer …. Relax !
You said, “….JE in opera, that is about all she has to offer”
Sure if you say so but I doubt the President of the United States, Japan’s Royal family, PBS, AGT, BGT, Oprah, Sumi Jo, Dmitri, Sarah B, Barbara Streisand, Carerras and a host of millionaires and billionaires would ever agree with you
@AJ That’s a pretty funny comment about Christmas Carols that are known to be less difficult than opera.
High culture is not an essential attribute of pop culture figures, politicians or billionaires. This is something money can’t buy. The professional musicians would concur with me as many of them already have except those with a vested interest in keeping their mouths shut.
“The professional musicians would concur with me as many of them already have except those with a vested interest in keeping their mouths shut.”
We know that Jackie often uses “pick-up” orchestras in various locations. When she sang in Boston on 1 Feb 2013, the harpist was Katie Lyon-Pingree. (Google her if you want.) She had some comments on her FaceBook page after she played in the orchestra behind Jackie.
This coming from a professional musician that has been around and has played for a lot of performers. Jackie made her cry. When she was 9, Jackie also made Debra Crosby, who has run a TV talent show in Boston for many years, cry. Debra said later that she “knew immediately that [she] was in the presence of greatness.”
And of course Jackie made Sharon Osbourne, & many others, cry. Not to mention Reba McEntire, one of the queens of American country music.
Then there’s Christopher Hahn, General Director of the Pittsburgh Opera, who made some comments in 2011.
So cabbagejuice, I guess these “professionals concur with you,” but perhaps didn’t have a “vested interest in keeping their mouths shut.” Is that right?
Sorry, the posts didn’t copy. The first is from Katie Lyon-Pingree, harpist from Jackie’s Boston concert:
“Ok so Jackie Evancho is really just that good. I seriously started crying at her high notes during O Mio [Babbino Caro].
She is seriously channeling Divine energy with some past life influences all at once.
Even if you don’t believe in that sort of thing – she’s amazing. Truly.
She sounded just. like. this.
…and then when she was done?
She would be a 12 yo girl – GIGGLING ON STAGE.
If I didn’t see it and hear it for myself – I don’t know if I would have believed it.”
Here is the 2nd comment, from Christopher Hahn, Director of the Pittsburgh Opera:
Sometime around mid-August of last summer (2010), Pitt Opera’s General Director Christopher Hahn started receiving text messages from friends urging him to watch a 10-year-old girl on AGT.
“They said, ‘this Jackie Evancho from Pittsburgh, she’s singing opera,’ & I went ‘Yeah, right.’”
But he dutifully tuned in & watched her perform. “And I said, ‘Uh-oh, I clearly have to pay attention to this.’”
…after last year’s show people were walking in off the street & demanding that Mr Hahn hire her, he said.
At age 11, Jackie is far too young to be an opera singer, which requires tremendous physical stamina. “She’s small & young, so you aren’t going to see her sing for 25 minutes straight,” Mr Hahn noted. “What’s interesting is that she herself likes this kind of music…”
Unlike the clear, piping voices in children’s choirs often described by singing coaches as “white sound,” Jackie’s voice has a “roundness, warmth, texture & color to it which is very unusual for a child’s voice,” Mr Hahn said.
My apologies. I forgot that using brackets <> seems to eliminate the entire passage here.
Of course Christmas Carols are easier than opera. Don’t know what that has to do with anything…*Scratching Head*
“High culture is not an essential attribute of pop culture figures, politicians or billionaires. This is something money can’t buy. The professional musicians would concur with me as many of them already have except those with a vested interest in keeping their mouths shut”
So what does high culture have to do with Jackie…. She or her team have never made any statements claiming they were elite etc. As a matter of fact most people comment on how humble and down to earth Jackie is.
Maybe high culture is something money can’t buy ;;; I guess the Opera is surviving on simple goodwill of the professional musicians who can’t eke out a living let alone support the culture. Unless of course you want to admit that the advancement of opera and the numerous venues is because of the support from these plebeian politicians and billionaires.
Attitudes don’t earn a living …. actions do !
Let’s get some more comments on this wonderful superstar topic. I think Evancho is up there on a level with Andre Rieu.
I read somewhere that shortly after AGT, Andre had expressed an interest in Jackie but I don’t remember where I read it or whether it was true or not.
@Laptop Obviously JE is a gifted natural performer. This has been said before. That is why she needs the best training to improve her technique and to protect her voice from early burnout.
@Laptop You have to be kidding. The sound is shaking as fast as her jaw:
“Even if you don’t believe in that sort of thing – she’s amazing. Truly.
She sounded just. like. this.
Oh puleeze! “She is seriously channeling Divine energy with some past life influences all at once.”
Firstly, it would be virtually impossible for the sound to shake at any other rate than her jaw is shaking. It’s her vibrato.
But more importantly, I DIDN’T WRITE THAT. I was quoting Katie Lyon-Pingree, the harpist who played for Jackie’s Boston concert on 1 Feb 2013. If you don’t like what she said, take it up with her. IIRC, Google said she was in New Hampshire.
In any case, plenty of professionals in the music business have very positive impressions of Jackie.
Ultimately, BTW, I’d also like to see her get the best vocal training possible, regardless of the genre she decides to sing. We actually know she IS taking some kinds of lessons in Pittsburgh, but the Evanchos are being mum about the details.
@Laptop I don’t know why you included the original Italian in Nessun Dorma because not only the English is not a direct translation but also modified to make sense for a woman singing the aria. As for the words that might be hard to figure out (if doing so has any importance or significance at all), they are on most of the phrases that begin on high notes. It is also a half tone higher than the original. It is acoustically impossible to enunciate in the upper range for any voice. That is why good composers avoid it or choose vowels that can pass up there. This aria was not written for a woman’s voice anyway.
Further to Ombra Mai Fu, the accent is on the first syllable of ombra, even more reason not to blurt out the second. A good coach or teacher would correct it. No Divine intervention needed.
I only put in the Italian in Nessun Dorma as a marker for which words I can hear at which places. If I could post the music instead, I would gladly do it. I of course know they changed the words to be more appropriate for a female voice.
Seriously, I just want to know the words Durbin is singing. I collect lyrics to lots of songs I like, since you can find them on the internet now. I probably have hundreds, or at least scores, on my hard drive. I just like knowing the words – in multiple languages when available.
Like I said, I know it’s more difficult to hear words on high notes, but I still try. Perhaps someone hears better than I do, or can read her lips, since the video shows her intermittently while she sings.
Perhaps some Americans have trouble rolling R’s after M’s, inserting a B between them. Certainly the mosque in Granada, Spain was rendered that way. The original Arabic is al-Hamra’ (the red), but (at least American; IDK about UK) English speakers insert a B: “Alhambra.” Perhaps that makes the B sound more prominent.
Of course this sounds pretty explosive to me:
@Laptop I don’t know a lot about harp technique but could probably appreciate good playing. So endorsements of singers by harpists, pianists or conductors (many of whom THINK they know vocal technique but don’t) have no interest nor significance for me. I can cite professional singers and teachers who disapprove of the way her voice is being handled, but they probably would not like to be bothered. Once “out” they will be bombarded by the Evancholists.
As for the “vibrato”, nice excuse, but it is not a healthy one and even if it were, which it is not, should NOT engage the jaw.
@Laptop As for “Elhambra”, is it interesting to point out that in modern Greek the b sound in script is created by putting together “m” and “p,” When one engage the lips from m for r, the b is almost unavoidable. So this is not an English speaker phenomenon.
As for the Caruso clip, it is amazing to what lengths the Evancholist fans go to justify their own opinions, scouring the internet for quotes and videos. Must really take a lot of time and devotion! It’s really ridiculous to compare her amateurish renderings of Ombra with one of the greatest. His first “ombra” sounds like one word with the accent on the first syllable. He does not explode the double consonant at all. the other ombras even less.
I didn’t know that about the Greek. Very interesting.
I just like the sound of Caruso’s voice, & his Italian is obviously perfect – except when he’s singing in the horrid (JMHO!) Neapolitan dialect on songs like O Sole Mio, LOL.I much prefer his earthy sound to more recent “sweeter” sounds, & he uses ornaments judiciously & subtly.
I can’t imagine how you’d say Jackie over-emphasises the 2nd syllable of “ombra” in this vid:
She still over-rolls R’s between vowels, though. She pronounces “cara ed amabile” more like “carra ed…” while Caruso correctly says “car’ ed…”
Fan devotion is understandable…it’s a staple of fandom. Look at yourself. You’re not even a fan and yet you spend a lot of time on Jackie …. I find that strange! It takes a lot of time and devotion and yet you’re not a fan!
@Laptop That was not the vid I was talking about but still the 2nd syllable is louder than the 1st. One would not get the impression that there is a phrase to complete as it more or less is cut after the “bra” everytime she does it. Ombra (shade) has to continue on to “mai fu” (already made). Poetry here in the name of conciseness leaves out some words but it still needs to make some textual and musical sense.
What bothers me is that this vid like others is a work in progress prematurely thrust onto the public. Hardly ever are mistakes corrected. The sound itself is shaking all through. Instead of a pre-planned secure first note, she is left to negotiate the waters somehow, hopefully to come to the end of it with enough breath.
It could be so much better with more adult responsibility and respect shown towards the music. Another commenter on the vid says about the same thing and is lambasted by the Evancholists over there.
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