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A tenor reports on the bomb that went off near the Israel Opera

The Berlin-based tenor Arnold Bezuyen was in rehearsal at Israel Opera when a bomb went off on a bus nearby today.

Friends of his have shared with us what he posted on his Facebook page:

… and then it happened. Today a bus was the target of an terror-attack. The bomb exploded nearby the opera-house. At least 10 people were injured. Although the situation is critic, the opera-house people fight in their own way against this terrorism. Music!!! The federal foreign office, advised to be careful but they don`t advise you to leave Israel.

Today, even the Israel people were quite shocked. But as it is, after about 10 Minutes, life did go on. “ladies and gentleman, we go on with the orchestra rehearsal, Mister Bezuyen on stage please”. It was the first time I couldn`t do it.

But, after a half hour even I was back on stage again.

It is hard to tell, hard to explain back home to my girl, to my girls, to my family to friends how it works here, how the deal with the whole situation. We worked so hard on the Wozzeck and Monday Deo Volente is the premiere, (by the way, I am initially not waiting for pitifulness and I do hope this will end very very soon, I just try to explain what is going on. The way I am doing it, writing it from my chest, is just helping me to get along with it, and your reactions are a big help…

 

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Comments

  1. Music is our best hope. Look at Daniel Barenboim and his East/West Divan orchestra.

    Keep singing.

  2. Andrew Hyde says:

    As on both sides in this pitiful “conflict”, the targeting of civilians is grotesquely reprehensible (although it must be said the Israelis have a stronger track record for it and a far higher strike rate). In the case of the attacks on Gaza, Israel defends its widespread murder of civilians by suggesting that they are merely too close to legitimate military targets, and that Hamas is using them as human shields. The same, it must be said, occurs in Tel Aviv, where Israel deliberately sites its Defence Ministry on King Saul Boulevard, in the middle of the cultural district. Israel has made clear that the government ministry buildings of its enemy are legitimate military targets, and that sometimes in attacking those targets others are caught in the crossfire. With that in mind Israel should also be taken to task for siting military installations in the heart of civilian infrastructure, and Mr Bezuyen should have words with his agent about the fact that his employment as a singer at Israel Opera also means that he is being employed as a human shield by the Israelis. Ethically, of course, those responsible for the military activity against the Israeli Ministry of Defence should first have dropped leaflets from the sky telling civilians to leave the area, but without unconditional US taxpayer funding it’s hard to get the planes. My sympathy goes out to Mr Bezuyen for this very traumatic experience, but the show goes on!

  3. Andrew Hyde: what a bullshit! I’m absolutely sure you’ve never been to Tel Aviv ! A normal bus with civilians on board wasn’t place there by Netanyahu, it’s just a normal bus, driving from A to Z and back. Just think twice before saying absolutely nonsens.

  4. Andrew Hyde says:

    I’ve been to Tel Aviv many times. I don’t like it much, but I wouldn’t bomb it. But have you ever been to Gaza? I doubt it. You see, I was employing a bit of satire there. Of course I agree with you entirely – Mr Bezuyen was no more a human shield than any of the civilians killed in Gaza (whom the Israeli military and press and, therefore, the international media, insists on painting as human shields). Targeting the Israeli Ministry of Defence is no more conscionable than targeting the Palestinian Ministry of Information – and in both cases, it’s reasonable that normal people might be going about their normal lives nearby. Killing or injuring civilians on either side is no more acceptable whichever side they are on. An Israeli life is no more valuable, worthy or sacred than a Palestinian life. The Dalu family weren’t placed there by Hamas either (remember them? http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/11/19/dalu-family-gaza_n_2159086.html). Thinking twice would be good advice for everybody. But if My Bezuyen is so traumatised by being in the vague vicinity of one of the repercussions of his hosts’ disastrous policies in relation to its occupied subjects, then maybe Israel is not the place for him. We’re supposed to accept that this is news – which of course it’s not, but I’m doing my best. It’s telling that it’s the single only piece of “news” the self-styled cultural commentator Norman Lebrecht chooses to transmit from this culturally rich “conflict”. It is, in fact, a total irrelevance – except perhaps for Mr Bezuyen, who nonetheless was back on stage within the half hour, and his family and friends, who were doubtless worried for him. But Facebook was perhaps where this non-story should have stayed.

  5. Has Mr. Hyde thought through what the consequences would be if Israel unilaterally desisted. Does he think ther Palestinian terrorists are saying to themsemves,”If only those Israelis would stop attacking us, we could go about our peaceful lives?” Is he kidding?

  6. A small correction aimed at mr. Hyde.

    The Gaza strip is not occupied, at least not by Israel. Its inhabitants are not occupied subjects, at least not by Israel.

    It would be nice to stick to the facts!

  7. Andrew Hyde says:

    Why should Israel unilaterally desist? Why should it not just return to its borders, cease the illegal blockade of Gaza, and negotiate a peace? Counting the calories of Gazans and building endless settlements and stealing West Bank land via the illegal separation fence and killing Palestinian children (at least 30 Gazan children have been killed in the last WEEK – not including a 19-year-old girl who was also killed, while 6 months pregnant) are all utterly unnecessary to its self-defence – so, even those of us who would argue blind that Israel has a right to defend itself, need not defend these gross acts of a bloodthirsty state operating with utter impunity… So, no, I haven’t thought through the consequences of something so unlikely that it’s not worth thinking about; but yes, I have wondered about what might happen if some shred of humanity shone its light on the current Israeli leadership. (Also unlikely, I’ll grant, but I’m not entirely devoid of hope.)

  8. @Pepstein – I’m afraid he is. Kidding.Targeting the Israeli Ministry of Defence???? The best joke I’ve ever heard.
    If you want to bomb the Ministery of Defence you don’t bomb a line bus, full of children!

  9. thekingontheviolin says:

    Dear Mr. Hyde,

    I would like to thank you for enabling me to clarify my own position.
    I am so happy and proud to be a jew notwithstanding your blistering and in my opinion inaccurate words against Israelis and I now know why.

    We jews are united. We love one another and in this respect are the envy of the world. The Christians have fragmented into more than 750 different theological non positions whilst the Arabs and the Moslems loath one another. They murder one another they abuse one another they fight and scream and blame and insult and yet for some reason you have a blind sympathy for their disunity and seem, like them to blame Israel or Israelis or implicitly jews.

    I am not shocked that people like you still exist. As I mentioned at the outset you have helped me ponder the real issue. Jewish unity and love despite disagreements is a unique phenomenon to be envied or admired. The less integrated an individual is then the more the tendency will be towards envy and spoiling in order to close the gap between the two entities. The more integrated an individual is then the more the tendency will be towards admiration and emulation in order to close the gap between the two entities in a creative manner.

    We jews are a unique people surviving since the dawn of time. We know that unity and love within the family foster successful lives. This lesson we are willing to share with anyone. It is a pity that reductionist positions render these important matters to the dogma of religion and politics. Instead , in my opinion, the destructive forces within Christianity which preaches love whilst not embracing it and the destructive forces within Islam which preaches brotherhood whilst committing murder especially against their own kith and kin and the destructive forces within secularism which preach tolerance whilst trying to appease everybody including the murderers sholud be rendered null and void by emulating the example of we jews who love one another and welcome difference without hatred and stand united in all places and at all times.

    Thank you for your ugly remarks. They provoked in me something which led to the clarification I have just outlined.

    • “…We know that unity and love within the family foster successful lives. This lesson we are willing to share with anyone…”

      really… this demonstrated level of delusion is scary.

    • and then there is that stupid entity called reality, which is a completely different matter altogether.

  10. Andrew Hyde says:

    Thank you all for your interesting comments.

    @Doreen: both the British Foreign and Commonwealth Office, the European Union and the United Nations agree that Gaza is under Israeli occupation. There’s no point arguing over semantics, so if we choose not to use the word occupation (which, anyway, I was using to refer to all of the Palestinian territories, which are manifestly under illegal Israeli military control), let’s at least agree that Israel controls all of Gaza’s land and sea borders (with the exception of the southern border; that it controls Gaza’a territorial waters and natural resources (including, most keenly, water); that it controls all of Gaza’s airspace, electricity and other power supplies, and telecommunications; that it has blockaded the Gaza Strip and held it under siege, controlling all imports and exports, for the past five years at least; that it calorie-counts for the Gazans, allowing in only enough food to keep the Gazan people on a strict “diet” (an Israeli government word); that it prevents the movement of people and materials in and out of the Strip; that it refuses to allow Gaza to export its produce, keeping it under effective economic siege; and that its military invades the Strip as it feels like it – including, just prior to the recent hostilities, and during a cease-fire, an incursion on November 8 which resulted in the murder of a 12-year-old boy (http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/11/08/us-palestinians-israel-violence-idUSBRE8A711O20121108). Sure, let’s not call it an occupation – it’s too benign a word, really, even if it’s the one the FCO, the EU and the UN adopt. Let’s just call it vulgar, brutal, inhumane, unjustified, shameful.

    @Basia: like you, I am desperately against the killing of children. Unlike you, I do not support a rogue regime which has killed more than 30 in a week. Do tell me the last time 30 Israeli children were murdered in a single week, and then come back to me with your ideas for jokes.

    @thekingontheviolin: I have enormous love and respect for Judaism, the religion of my grandparents, and do not think I have mentioned Jews or Jewishness once in anything I have written. If what I have written gives you a greater appreciation of your faith, then I am delighted. But to suggest that all Jews are united, or that they all love one another, is of course ludicrous. Israeli civil society is a ticking timebomb, even without the Palestinians! There is very little love lost between various strands of Jewish society there. But that hardly matters: what I am talking about is Israeli government policy towards the Palestinians, something with which many Jews around the world and within Israel disagree. Unfortunately it’s a grossly murderous policy, which places no value on any non-Israeli life. And to suggest that it is in some way an example of “welcoming difference without hatred” – given the rampantly racist attitudes currently being aired in Israel against African immigrants, for example, or the Arab population of Israel – even before mentioning the 130+ murders committed in Gaza this past week… it’s truly laughable. What you are defending – if it is the Israeli government that you are defending – is a violent, spiteful, murderous, rogue regime which has itself become the most vicious Goliath.

    • thekingontheviolin says:

      In some ways I anticipated that you would reply in the manner you have. First of all, please accept my apologies but I have a feeling you are not jewish according to jewish law. If I am wrong and you have four fully Jewish grandparents then I suggest you seek psychotherapy for your rage which emerges in your expressive style. If you are not jewish according to jewish law then your rage is more understandable as there must be considerable tension within you knowing that the jews reject you and any unconscious desire to be part of their world leads to internal catastrophe.

      Notwithstanding your personal position, it is true you did not mention jews or judaism explicitly which is why I used the word implicitly. The murder of jewish children in a French kindergarten is just one of thousands of examples which links your political position on Israel with jews world wide by enraged Arabs. There is no need to furnish further examples as you are erudite and experienced in debate. If you were a fool I would list maybe a hundred examples as evidence leading to proof that anti jewish hatred is at the bottom of all this.

      The most striking thing to me about your clever answer (I fully acknowledge problems in Israel regarding for example immigrants or religious jews versus non religious jews) is that you cleverly evaded the issue I raised.

      In the first laws of statistics we are taught to compare like with like……

      I outlined the disastrous state of affairs in the Christian world whereby they cannot even establish a first basis for a viable theology and later stated that the Arabs in particular and Moslems in general are a bloodthirsty lot murdering their own kith and kin from the beginning of their existence.

      By contrast we jews are united in love for one another and I repeat are the envy of the world.
      You ignored this simple observable fact and jumped to petty disputes within current day Israel. Now I ask you this. Is this like with like? Where is the civil war in Israel? Where are gangs of Jews murdering gangs of jews? Where in the Arab world is there anything other than the opposite of this?

      Yes you are right there are problems in Israel but your position is distorted . Ther are thousands of world locations for unrest and heated debate. Why pick on Israel? Either you are entirely jewish requiring psychotherapy in my opinion or your mother is not jewish according to jewish law in which case you deserve unmitigated sympathy for a very difficult identity issue.

      Jumping to politics will not help anybody. I am strictly non political and you have in no way strengthened my faith. I was precise. I thank you for giving me the opportunity to clarify that we jews are united in love and have sustained miraculously an unbroken chain for thousands of years which is the envy of the world. Sooner or later envy if modified by tolerance and love leads to admiration and emulation and then in difficult situations two people who are in conflict argue on an unexpressed bedrock of certainty that nothing will break the creativity between the two parties.
      Unfortunately the unconscious bedrock of envy causes difference to escalate into violence and destruction.

      Every one of us is prone to disintegration meaning we are tempted to allow ourselves the descent from admiration to envy and every one of us is responsible for the hard inner work needed to tolerate envy and try to reverse it to admiration and emulation.

      Whoever you are, Please try to stop the destructive attacks in your own mind so that they do not become attached to political models which escalate so quickly into hysterical rhetoric which leads to violence.

      I repeat again we jews are united despite differences in love and this is easily demonstrated. We do not murder one another. SIMPLE.

    • I am not going into the discussion whether Israel occupies or controls like occupation because this will be an endless discussion and has been going on long enough.

      I do not know where you live, mr. Hyde (Only now I see the funny side of your family name), but let’s assume you live in the States. Does the USA accept just about anybody/everybody who wants to enter the country? I do not think so. Do you think the people of the USA are racists because they do not want illegal Mexicans crossing the borders? (Even tourists from some countries cannot just enter, but have to undergo an investigation)

      Let’s say you are from England. Does England just let everybody enter the country? No checking whether you are rich or poor, whether you come with a job prospective or hoping to get some money from the government? Already on the coast of France large trucks on their way to the U.K. are checked to find illegal migrants hidden between boxes and bottles. No, England is not interested in illegal migrants. Are they racists because of this?

      Give me an example of a country where illegal migrants are welcome. There is no country like that. If they are welcome, they are obviously not illegal.

      Israel has more than 60.000 migrants from Africa. They have to be fed, clothed, medically treated, their kids which they keep on producing here, have to go to school, they have to be housed somewhere. The migrants provide a huge problem. It has nothing to do with racism. The color does not matter.

      What do we see by the way? These people try to enter Israel from the Egyptian side. When Egypt catches these poor people (who mostly share their religion in peace), these poor migrants are often killed or robbed, put in jail. So Egyptians are racist too, if I follow your train of thoughts.

      So just try to understand the situation a bit better if you can and compare what other countries do in a similar situation. No country is interested in such numbers of illegal migrants who have nothing to offer and only are an enormous burden on the country and the inhabitants.

      I invite you to visit the southern part of Tel Aviv and have a good look at what is happening there. There are many good Israeli people who try to help and collect clothes etc.

      You should be careful calling us racists. I wonder if you would take in illegal poor people in your home.

      Now you will say, oh but you are racists, see how you discriminate the Arabs living in Israel! There are people who are not fond of Arabs (it is mutual). But officially Arab citizens have the same rights as any other Israeli citizen. Look at the knesset, look at every day life, look at the universities, the hospitals. I can give you many examples, but as long as you keep your eyes fogged and your ears full of wax, it is useless.

      • Andrew Hyde says:

        @Doreen: Google ‘Tel Aviv race riot’, or ‘death to the Arabs’. Have a look at the videos that come up. Show me the equivalent from modern day USA or UK – violent mobs chanting racist slogans with no official intervention or punishment, followed by no national handwringing, investigations or recriminations. I don’t know many countries that welcome “illegal migrants” but I don’t know of any where the violent, institutionalised racism towards them is so entrenched and accepted – and here also towards the thoroughly legal Arab citizens of the country. It’s pretty ugly to look at, I’m sure you’ll agree. As to “the same rights”, I think of education, for example, where the state-run system is segregated into Hebrew and Arabic branches, where the government spends almost $6 on each “Hebrew” student for every $1 spent on an “Arabic” student. Or there is the (Israeli government-mandated) Or Commission which stated (http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Society_&_Culture/OrCommissionReport.html): “The state and generations of its government failed in a lack of comprehensive and deep handling of the serious problems created by the existence of a large Arab minority inside the Jewish state. Government handling of the Arab sector has been primarily neglectful and discriminatory. The establishment did not show sufficient sensitivity to the needs of the Arab population, and did not take enough action in order to allocate state resources in an equal manner. The state did not do enough or try hard enough to create equality for its Arab citizens or to uproot discriminatory or unjust phenomenon. Meanwhile, not enough was done to enforce the law in the Arab sector, and the illegal and undesirable phenomena that took root there. As a result of this and other processes, serious distress prevailed in the Arab sector in various areas. Evidence of the distress included poverty, unemployment, a shortage of land, serious problems in the education system and substantially defective infrastructure.” And so on, and so on.

  11. Andrew Hyde says:

    @thekingontheviolin Thanks for your reply. I do genuinely enjoy reading what you have to say, and I will take your suggestion that I seek psychotherapy as one that is very well meant. Firstly, of course Jews kill each other. To say otherwise is preposterous. Nonetheless I am not interested in fighting a religious war. I have no particular interest in any religion over any other, and I do not believe that people of any religion are more predisposed than others either to love or to violence. I think, what you say notwithstanding, evidence for such a claim, historically, would be hard to find. In the situation in Gaza substantially more blood is on the Israelis hands. Just this morning the Israelis breached the agreed ceasefire, again sent its troops into Gaza, and killed a Palestinian civilian. Whatever this is it is not an expression of love. I refuse to accept that it is an expression of any Jewish belief either. It is the result of a violent, racist policy of a deranged state, that’s all. If you think this is “jumping to politics”, so be it. I have no interest in “jumping to religion”. It is politics which has killed all those Gazans this week, not religion.

    • thekingontheviolin says:

      Your tone is more moderate . Bravo!
      However, mistakes are creeping in. I mentioned hysterical rhetoric. You give an example “Firstly, of course Jews kill each other. To say otherwise is preposterous.”

      When I did o’level English our teacher explained that any statement not backed up by explicit examples and quotations from the text would fail. He meant it!
      For example “Shakespeare is a great playright”
      FAIL ….why?
      because it is a truism not backed up by evidence and textual analysis. Any teacher could remain suspiscious that the student had not read the play.

      Now back from the analogy to the analogue. I have stated that Arabs in particular and Moslems in general are a bloodthirsty and murderous lot.. In the last year we have seen civil disturbance and violence and murder in Tunisia, Libya. Egypt, Lebanon, Syria, Iran…. need I continue? I have evidence and proof to back up my statement.

      Now your hysterical rhetoric looks powerful. Indeed 6000000 of our people( Yes, you are included due to your grandparents) were murdered due to hystercal rhetoric such as “all jews are vermin” etc, etc, taking root in the collective unconscious of millions of BAD GERMANS who contributed to the horror in one way or another.
      Now I ask you what is preposterous about my assertion that we Jews do not murder one another?
      It is true. You will not find evidence or proof.

      If you disobey the law of comparing like with like then yes you will find jewsih rapists and individual murderers but please don’t pretend that you did not understand what I meant.

      I will repeat again after the following….
      The Spanish civil war involved murder of Spaniard by Spaniard.
      The Russian revolution involved the murder of tens of millions of Russians by Russians
      Do you yet understand what I am trying to say?

      We jews are unique in the world. We do not murder ONE ANOTHER. We are united with love and are the envy of the world.

      The nations of the world do murder one another and I mean not only one group against another group I mean specifically that they also fragment so that one section of a group murders another section of the same group and this horrific phenomenon is absent in the Jews who despite the 20 kings who did behave like this
      have learnt the lesson of unity and love and are currently an example to be emulated.

      You will win against me with hysterical rhetoric but you are wrong and I am right.

      Ultimately truth will out and hysterical rhetoric will subside and people will notice the simple but unpleasant fact that the jews, despite difference, do not murder one another and this is an example to be emulated by all peoples in the world.

      I am sorry if you find my position preposterous. However you are in the very good company of Hitler and Stalin who were also masters of hysterical rhetoric. It works. You are right if efficacy in the short term is what you seek. The Arabs currently are masters of hysterical rhetoric but they cannot escape my observation that they love murder. As they conceive their babies their women folk pray that they have male children who will become martyrs whilst murdering jews.

      I do not choose to sleep with such a woman. I have never met a jewish woman who would entertain such a position as a quality attractive to her mate. I have never met a jewsih man who would look for such qualities in his woman.

      It is time for you to stop thinking in terms of politics or religion or hysterical rhetoric.

      It is time to look to the origins of peace and beauty within a home. Every human being has a right to it and with work it can be achieved.

      • Jews are humans like anyone else, aren’t they? You seem to imply otherwise.

      • Andrew Hyde says:

        @thekingontheviolin: Many thanks indeed for reply. I am sorry that you read what I write as mere “hysterical rhetoric”. I’m relieved that I have refrained from comparing you (for example) with Hitler and Stalin, as you have done to me; from making the most gross and insupportable racist generalisations about another ethnic or religious group, as you have done; or from allowing my fevered mind eavesdrop on the imagined coital prayers of some hundreds of millions of women. Then my hysteria really would have been more obvious. Or if I’d allowed myself the kind of leeway the Jerusalem Post editor (18 November) allowed Gilad Sharon, son of the former Israeli Prime Minister, who spouted, “We need to flatten entire neighborhoods in Gaza. Flatten all of Gaza. The Americans didn’t stop with Hiroshima – the Japanese weren’t surrendering fast enough, so they hit Nagasaki, too. There should be no electricity in Gaza, no gasoline or moving vehicles, nothing.” (http://www.jpost.com/Opinion/Op-EdContributors/Article.aspx?id=292466) If I’d conjured up something like that then, yes, I’d take a charge of hysterical rhetoric. But I’m really only talking about the now 160+ Gazans murdered by the Israeli government in the last week – up to and including Anwar Qdeih, 23 years old, shot in the face this morning – and the ongoing occupation and subjugation of the Palestinian people by Israel. It’s a topic where one really doesn’t need to reach for hyperbole. I’m glad you have so much love: I hope you have a lot to share. It will take a lot to mend all the lives that have been broken by this grotesque, uneven “conflict”.

  12. thekingontheviolin says:

    You continue to confuse murder of one group of another with murderousness within one group versus the jewish position of tolerance of difference without resort to murder.
    Obviously I see the former position as more regressed and the latter as more integrated. Until this point is shown to me to have been integrated and acknowledged by you I cannot proceed to discuss the next level of inter group dissent.

    I think your steadfast refusal to acknowledge my simple point that the jewish position is more integrated and based in love shows that you do recognise the truth but cannot admit it for fear your entire position would need reappraisal.

    I wish you well with your bashing of Israel and its citizens. You will succeed. Millions of people support your position.

    I do not because it is wrong.

    • Andrew Hyde says:

      @thekingontheviolin: I do not confuse those matters. I do not believe that there are any overriding characteristics which mark out any super-large group, be they “Jews”, “Arabs”, “Christians” or whatever, and I will not be drawn into acknowledging any such generalisations – let alone confusing such a generalisation with my own very clearly articulated view. I believe it is Israeli policy to subjugate the Palestinian people, and that this subjugation is often manifested in the state-sponsored murder of innocent Palestinians, particularly children. I have no interest in “bashing” Israel or its citizens. I do however criticise the policies of the Israeli government and question the motives of those who support them, which includes many – but hardly all – citizens of Israel. Precisely because I think this has nothing whatsoever to do with “Jewish positions”, “Jewish unity and love” or “Jewish” anything else is exactly why I have zero interest in discussing those matters, or confusing them with what it is I am discussing.

    • A simple question, please give a straight forward answer:

      Do you consider “the Jews” to be a part of the big family of humanity, one “tribe” among many, or do you consider “the Jews” to be a special group or even “God’s chosen people”?

      Because if you do, there is no base discussing with you, because you have positioned yourself outside of the community of mankind.

      Personally I think you believe in an illusion. There is no unified jewish position on any of this. There is a level of solidarity based on a common religious culture. But if you think that not killing each other but instead killing a lot of people from “other tribes” is sophisticated, then I fail to see how this is in any way a position of love or higher integration. It is simply a position of Apartheid and artificial division of mankind then.

  13. thekingontheviolin says:

    Dear Mr. Hyde,

    Please show me evidence of your published outrage directed against Gazans who have bombarded innocent Israelis and children.

    When you show me evidence of genuine interest in all innocent citizens and children then I would like to meet you. The published material in support of Israeli children must be proven to be before today’s date. Only then will I feel you have genuine sympathy for innocent citizens and children.

    As for Realist, I am starting from a family unit. I would rather go to a camping site and have my tent next to a peaceful and loving family rather than a rowdy mass of people, some fighting, arguing, and generally creating a disturbance. I assume that you would too.

    Now to continue if there is evidence that one particular family is grouped with many other like minded families
    who have a proven track record of peacability then this something of which to be proud. I am a proud member of the is group, the jewish people who are know not to murder one another despite difference.

    If you consider this position superior then I thank you. I feel it is preferable. The REAL REALIST question is
    why are other racial groups, or religious groups so notoriously intolerant of one another?

    Of course to answer your question, Jews are part of humanity. We are not outside. The other groups are outside acceptable standards by dint of their behaviour to one another. I await the day genuine improvement
    comes to the world and it must begin in the home.

    • Andrew Hyde says:

      @thekingontheviolin: I have no desire in making you want to meet me, may I be clear. I try not to hang around with race supremacists of any bent. But, for the record, the first thing I said in this discussion was, “On both sides in this pitiful ‘conflict’, the targeting of civilians is grotesquely reprehensible.” I stand by that. I went on to say, “the Israelis have a stronger track record for it and a far higher strike rate”. I stand by that also. The total number of Israeli casualties from rocket fire since 2001 equals slightly fewer than 70. The total number of Palestinian casualties in Gaza during the same period – in “retaliation” for the rockets, we’re told to believe – equals well over 4500 (including well over 1000 children). Over 60 Gazans (or about 15 Gazan children) have been killed in revenge for every 1 Israeli killed from Gaza. With your obsession for comparing like for like, you will see clearly where I am heading here. I condemn the rocket fire from Gaza absolutely; and the targeting of civilians absolutely. I said as much in the first sentence I wrote here, and I don’t believe anything I have said contradicts this. But on the Israeli side there is so much more to condemn; so much pointless murder; so much hate created, not extinguished. In the last week, let’s remember, two-and-a-half times as many Gazans were killed by Israel as have Israelis been killed in over a decade of rocket fire. All of these deaths are to be mourned – bitterly, but equally. Any life ended in this way – especially civilian life, particularly the lives of children – is so pitifully sad as to take one’s breath away. It doesn’t matter if the death is an Israeli or a Palestinian, a Jew, Muslim or Christian. All have died, and continue to die. But to pretend that it’s some kind of equal conflict, or that we should always see things in a “balanced” way as if it were a “war” between equals – or that I should have to prove anything to you (worse, still, to meet you) is a futile waste of time.

  14. thekingontheviolin says:

    You are becoming angry again…….
    I have a feeling you don’t have any published material condemning violence against innocent Israeli children.
    It looks as if our date is off.
    I wish you well.

    • Andrew Hyde says:

      Alhamdulillah.

    • An endangered species, or in common parlance, the “underdog”, can afford to be moral.
      Benevolence in victors or those in a position or power is rare. With the exception of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, the “occupation” by the US after WWII was remarkably free of the retribution one could have expected from Germany and Japan if they had won the war. Instead in a decade or so, they soon became remarkable economic successes,
      The easy solution in bombing one’s enemies continued through the Vietnam war and has been shown to be a miserable failure. For every Vietcong put out, ten wouldl rise up in its place. Don’t even mention “collateral damage”, the cluster bombs and defoliants that produced genetic deformities in future generations.
      I remember reading back then in the daily news the body count of the Vietnamese versus ours, like a sports score.The higher numbers taken down on their side was supposed to give the public some kind of justification and confidence we were winning. Making the accounts at the end however, we lost 55,000 men and the war too.
      Isn’t madness repeating something useless, senseless and destructive time and again while expecting a different result?

  15. The conflict started when (then barren) Sarah, Abraham’s wife, encouraged him to enter Hagar’s (her handmaid) bedchamber. Ishmael, the issue of that encounter was birthed on Sarah’s knee, and ‘became Abraham’s son’ until YAHWEH saw fit to fulfil the promise HE made to Abraham (to give him his own son, Isaac, by his own wife, Sarah.
    (Brothers seldom get along, especially when the full blooded son is chosen over the half blooded son.)

    That being said: The land of Israel, every square inch of it, belongs to YAHWEH.
    YAHWEH has decided who will inhabit HIS land and then gave that land to HIS chosen people for that purpose. When someone, other than YAHWEH, decided that YAHWEH had no right to decide who should inhabit HIS land, a major problem arose.

    When the “Palestinians” come to understand that they inhabit the land (of ISRAEL proper) which YAHWEH gave to the Hebrew race, and then the “Palestinians” willingly chose to leave that land, the major problem will become a lesser one.

    When the “Palestinians” (whom seem to worship a man-made god called “Allah”) come to realize that YAHWEH will fight for HIS land, and HIS chosen people (the Hebrew race) and that YAHWEH is willing (and able) to utterly destroy ALL whom chose to fight against HIM, the lesser problem will then be solved.

    Otherwise there can be no “peaceful” solution to any existing problem.

    • Manmade mythology is not a solution for anything in the 21st century. It’s actually quite funny to read stuff like this, if it wasn’t so deadly serious and wouldn’t make people forget their humanity.

      This “God’s chosen people” nonsense is destructive evil ideology.

      • Realist said – “Manmade mythology is not a solution for anything in the 21st century. It’s actually quite funny to read stuff like this, if it wasn’t so deadly serious and wouldn’t make people forget their humanity.

        This “God’s chosen people” nonsense is destructive evil ideology.”
        ————————————————————————————————————————
        YAHWEH’S ideology is certainly not “evil”; but it is most certainly “destructive” to those who refuse to adhere.
        So laugh away, “Realist”, but be sure to squat and watch in the meantime.
        YAHWEH’S version of “21st century reality” will surely come, and sooner than you think.
        YESHUA will come back to this world and do what he said he would do; because he earned that right… the hard way.

  16. http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate#section_1

    Israel’s murder rate per capita is with 2.1 per 100.000 midfield at best. Higher than most civilized countries in the world. Countries that are considered to have low murder rates are most of the Middle and Northern European ones. All of them btw with a predominantly christian tradition.

    So your ideas seem to have no legs in reality.

  17. Since when does any country give back land they have obtained in war? Israel was attacked. Yes attacked in ’48, ’67, ’73. In each of these cases it was a coalition of Arab countries which attacked Israel and Israel defeated them each time. Surrounding Arabs perpetually threaten Israel with wiping them off the map and have been for decades dropping missiles and performing terrorists activities such as the recent bombing of a civilian bus. Israel has for to long been patient with the monsters surrounding them; their undemocratic governments, treatment of women, and anyone or anything that would have an opinion differing in any way other than their own religious ideology.

    Arabs kill each other over differences of religious opinions, Jews do not do this to each other.

    If Israelis put down weapons and stop defending themselves we would have a repeat of Jewish annihilation as in WW II.

    It is beyond any reasoning that people do not see the Arab, Persian, Islamic hatred for Jews.

    Mr. Hyde should go and live in Afghanistan or Saudia Arabia or some such place.

  18. Surrounding Arabs perpetually threaten Israel with wiping them off the map and have been for decades dropping missiles and performing terrorists activities such as the recent bombing of a civilian bus. Israel has for to long been patient with the monsters surrounding them; their undemocratic governments, treatment of women, and anyone or anything that would have an opinion differing in any way other than their own religious ideology.

    Arabs kill each other over differences of religious opinions, Jews do not do this to each other.

    If Israelis put down weapons and stop defending themselves we would have a repeat of Jewish annihilation as in WW II.

    It is beyond any reasoning that people do not see the Arab, Persian, Islamic hatred for Jews.

    Mr. Hyde should go and live in Afghanistan or Saudia Arabia or some such place.

  19. It looks like one form of religious extremism is about as good as the other and tradable currency: those who want to establish the New Caliphate by taking down the Twin Towers and setting off bombs in London, Bali, and of course their own countries if they are deemed not radical enough, and those who don’t flinch at babies being killed, maimed or deprived of their homes or parents as long as it isn’t their own race or respectable people. The Original Sin is pride and renouncing being one’s brother’s keeper.
    Jesus and Buddha taught otherwise, however.

  20. Andrew Hyde says:

    Since his post inspired this friendly discussion, it’s perhaps worth pointing out that the opening night of Mr Bezuyen’s Wozzeck is tomorrow night in Tel Aviv, and I for one wish him and his colleagues best wishes for a successful reprise of this acclaimed production. I hope to see it later in its run, if I have not first been forcibly removed to Afghanistan or Saudi Arabia.

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