http://www.artsjournal.com/jazzbeyondjazz/2008/05/the_new_future.html Howard Mandel's Urban Improvisation Tue, 21 Feb 2012 04:44:09 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 http://www.artsjournal.com/jazzbeyondjazz/2008/05/the_new_future.html#comment-173 Charles Sun, 25 May 2008 02:27:52 +0000 http://www.artsjournal.com/jazzbeyondjazz/wp/2008/05/the_new_future/#comment-173 Nice to see some hip-hop in in the beyond, though it is worth noting that there is in fact a lot of hip-hop that is much more beyond, Mathew Shipp and his work with the very out, and quite aptly named rappers, Anti-Pop Consortium springs to mind, but there are lots of others. We need to get away from our prejudice against samplers and drum machines in the same way that certain jazz spokespeople can't understand wah-wah pedals. It is still a real live person pushing those buttons. There is a distinction between looping done well and done poorly and not unlike jazz, those that do it in the most bland and repetitive nature seem to get on the radio a lot more often. Those who do it well maintain a strong connection not just to the surface qualities of jazz via samples of hard bop tunes, but in the aesthetics of improvisation and freedom by radically refiguring the original sources like collage artist might do (which can be paired with similar aesthetics in improvised freestyle rapping, DJ scratching, etc. etc.) Not only did hip-hop emerge from "the same multi-culti, helter-skelter cityscapes," (brilliant way to put it!) it emerged from the same tradition that nourishes jazz. All these rappers worship Gil Scott Heron and the Last Poets, who worshiped Coltrane in the same way as those interested in jazz beyond jazz do. At any rate, I enjoyed this post and wish I would have been there. HM: Thanks for the wisdom of this note, Charles -- I don't mean to tag samplers, drum machines or turntables as the culprits in rendering new music inoperable for many listeners (even those who've grasped the wah-wah), just citing some of the superficial turnoffs (same as the wah-wah was. I still have jazz associates who think electric gtr *without" the wah-wah is a subversion of the jazz aesthetic!, excepting Barney Kessell and Wes Montgomery,) You're absolutely right that it's the skill of the manipulator and sensibility of collaboration which makes the difference, which gives the music it's valued elements, whatever style. Incidentally, I was lucky to hear the Last Poets and Gil Scott on a double bill produced by the Colgate Black Student Union in 1971. On that same daytrip from Syracuse U, where I went to school, I met and spent some time with Andrew Hill, which led to a long acquaintance and eventual friendship. That was a great day -- the Poets were baaaad. Nice to see some hip-hop in in the beyond, though it is worth noting that there is in fact a lot of hip-hop that is much more beyond, Mathew Shipp and his work with the very out, and quite aptly named rappers, Anti-Pop Consortium springs to mind, but there are lots of others.
We need to get away from our prejudice against samplers and drum machines in the same way that certain jazz spokespeople can’t understand wah-wah pedals. It is still a real live person pushing those buttons. There is a distinction between looping done well and done poorly and not unlike jazz, those that do it in the most bland and repetitive nature seem to get on the radio a lot more often. Those who do it well maintain a strong connection not just to the surface qualities of jazz via samples of hard bop tunes, but in the aesthetics of improvisation and freedom by radically refiguring the original sources like collage artist might do (which can be paired with similar aesthetics in improvised freestyle rapping, DJ scratching, etc. etc.)
Not only did hip-hop emerge from “the same multi-culti, helter-skelter cityscapes,” (brilliant way to put it!) it emerged from the same tradition that nourishes jazz. All these rappers worship Gil Scott Heron and the Last Poets, who worshiped Coltrane in the same way as those interested in jazz beyond jazz do.
At any rate, I enjoyed this post and wish I would have been there.
HM: Thanks for the wisdom of this note, Charles — I don’t mean to tag samplers, drum machines or turntables as the culprits in rendering new music inoperable for many listeners (even those who’ve grasped the wah-wah), just citing some of the superficial turnoffs (same as the wah-wah was. I still have jazz associates who think electric gtr *without” the wah-wah is a subversion of the jazz aesthetic!, excepting Barney Kessell and Wes Montgomery,) You’re absolutely right that it’s the skill of the manipulator and sensibility of collaboration which makes the difference, which gives the music it’s valued elements, whatever style.
Incidentally, I was lucky to hear the Last Poets and Gil Scott on a double bill produced by the Colgate Black Student Union in 1971. On that same daytrip from Syracuse U, where I went to school, I met and spent some time with Andrew Hill, which led to a long acquaintance and eventual friendship. That was a great day — the Poets were baaaad.

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