I'll Take One of Everything, Please

I basically agree with Chris. While I would not label the groups I've studied and interviewed as racist, classical music's institutions (conservatories and orchestras for example) generally favor the music of dead white men. By performing the music of living white men, and some living white women, their music is comparably diverse.

Gilbert's statements, "What does that mean about the music I write? Does the style of music one writes attract a certain race even in the "new music" arena? Or maybe it's a natural occurrence without any ill-intention." have, as always, a wide variety of possible questions. What does "natural" mean? People collaboratively construct their cultures. Does the unquestioned existence of group's set of behaviors constitute natural? I strongly doubt that groups organize themselves by race because they want to exclude others. But the fact that these characteristics occur raises serious questions about the claim made by, among others, Alex Ross that classical music is universal and connected with so many other kinds of music. How universal is music that appeals to a rather homogeneous audience?

Real quick, Corey and I talked and I realize I had - in my previous posts - sort of scrambled the definition of "sycretism" in my own effort to bring these issues concerning race and NY's music scenes to the table.

That said, Gilbert's post is very interesting to me - and I'd like to read what other folks have to say.

I will be quiet now. Thank you for indulging.

Hey Molly and all..just going to share some thoughts/experiences...

Talking about "diversity" in new music, ICE is holding its 3G Festival in New York May 2-7 featuring 3 generations of Mexican composers. They've done stuff like this before. They do hold up to their name. But this is actually something I've thought about at times..."diversity" in "new music." I remember going to a show at the Stone when I first started to become familiar with the New York scene in January 2007, looked around a bit and noticed I was the only non-white person at the gig (minus the sax player Steve Coleman). I just accepted it as the norm--really; but it did open my eyes. I wondered why this was and thought maybe it also had to do with style. The idea was more salient to me when I was watching a CSI type movie in which the white kid on the subway was listening to Radiohead. So, please please excuse me, but in a way, the movie implied "rock music=music a white kid on the subway would listen to." Also, look at the indie rock scene and the downtown new music scene. The marriage, if you will, makes sense to me. It is a remarkable convergence, but having never identified myself with rock music (my preferences are tribal house, Tejano [like Selena & Kumbia Kings], lounge, some hip-hop, some dance music, Reggeaton, out-jazz, and others) or the downtown scene could it be because of my race? Or not? I don't feel rock music in my veins, but actually my cousin does (not the NY indie rock kind). What does that mean about the music I write? Does the style of music one writes attract a certain race even in the "new music" arena? Or maybe it's a natural occurrence without any ill-intention. Hmm...thoughts?

"Let us launch a campaign to force people to be open-minded, at gunpoint if necessary."

Huh?

I think the "divide" that Molly speaks of when it comes to "prestigious conservatories" simply resonates more with some composers than me. I should acknowledge that.

See, I know first hand from past dialogs that what I'm saying can come across as some dishonest politically correct BS and inspire (predictably) sarcasm from my open-minded peers. I'm a skeptic. I have doubts. Please, noone here take what I'm posting as an insult to anyone's spirit of inclusion and adventure. Read what I post as a dispatch from someone operating "outside" of what - when I bounce around from blog to blog - appears to be a pretty tight clique of musicians who (like all of us - me included) might occasionally benefit from other perspectives.

My own experience in the past few years collaborating with members of William Parker's quartet, the Black Rock Coalition and other great African American artists has pushed this issue of race for me in relation to the world where I apply for grants, attend so called "classical" concerts and read blogs like this one. I scratch my head a lot.

Alex Ross's playlist...well...it's all great music - but let's not wear ourselves out patting each other on the back too much touting its supposed syncretism.

Let us launch a campaign to force people to be open-minded, at gunpoint if necessary.

Good news: It appears as though Alex Ross has accepted the term "syncretism." Now, how can we get Bernard Holland to do the same?

"Thus, for such bands, diversity has nothing to do with race or gender, but with style. The groups are usually comprised of white musicians."

And their rep is usually comprised of music composed by white composers. And their audiences are usually comprised of white attendees.

I just think that we in the "fringe" might want to check ourselves once in a while to be sure we haven't gotten too comfortable with our self-imposed "fringe status" not realizing that we are behaving as prejudicially as any major "uptown" orchestra or academia.

I'm doing my master's thesis on new music ensembles. In my study of one group, the emphasis on diversity stems from the fringe status that new music has had within classical cultures. Many groups also attempt to bridge the political divide between modernist and postmodernist composers. Thus, for such bands, diversity has nothing to do with race or gender, but with style. The groups are usually comprised of white musicians.

BTW, I started listening to why are we building such a big ship? b/c of your post. They're awesome.

Thanks for posting, John. I hope you'll share more of your research with us as your project progresses.

-Molly

Yay, Molly!!! Welcome to the bløgösphère, as Alex Ross would put it! ("Pronounced VLOHNKH-yow-shpairrrrr (with a sharp trilled "r" at the end," he says.)

Welcome, Molly!

I look forward to reading what you have to say.

Hi Molly - thanks for the heads up and the link. I worry a lot about this whole gap business too, so glad to see you pitching in!

Best,
Tim

A blog of your own, eay?

It's about time.

Much success with this.

Best,

ACD

Hey, Molly. Great blog. You know me but for those who don't Molly and I have had some back and forth via email and she is aware of my music (I think...) and activities here in NYC and beyond (New Orleans, Richmond and other points way South).

As soon as you wrote "...quite a few blocks uptown..." after a harmless if somewhat (in my opinion) myopic description of Brooklyn based musicians, I thought (and I'm not kidding...) "Ah, she's gonna talk about Harlem..." But instead you continued with what is for me a very narrow description of the musical world that is New York: Camp A equals indie rock bands in Williamsburg. Camp B - kids going to "prestigious" universities.

"Camp A" should include a lot of great African American artists who - in my observation - ironically get left out of these public conversations about syncretism in this city's "new music" scene. It's as if the walls that came down back in the 80's (when so many art forms - including what you might describe as the black avant-garde and white avant garde who truly acknowledged and produced work informed by their respective "camps") were rebuilt circa 1990 leaving a New York where syncretism is truly in the eye of niche demographic.

Just earlier this morning, I was speaking with a collegue (at my day job) about artists Helga Davis, Carl Hancock Rux, Saul Williams, Greg Tate, Sekou Sundiata, Tamar Kali, etc., each one a cutting edge musical artist as interesting as anything you'll currently find in Williamsburg or the Universities (although it should be noted their work can be heard in both locations). If these artists are a part of my conversation with a collegue at my day gig (a collegue who can also speak about Williamburg's indie rock scene as well as composers one usually associates with University venues), why are their names continually absent on "new music" blogs?

Forgive me if this all sounds pious, condescending and/or like shooting fish in a barrel. That is not my intention. My concern comes from real-world experience composing, recording and collaborating with many artists here in NYC (and from the South). And as a composer who might be (unfairly and inaccurately) pegged as a member of either your camp "A" or camp "B", I do feel a duty to speak up occasionally. I'm here to push the envelope - mainly for myself in creative terms, but also as a member of the artistic community that is New York City, baby.

Looking forward to hearing more from you. Peace.

CB

Hi Chris! You are quite right about the myopia. I'm sure it still haunts me, though hopefully it improves daily. In this case, I was only thinking about the musical world I was involved in during my first 6 months in NYC fresh off the truck from Ohio, which consisted mainly of absorbing the music my new indie rock friends in Williamsburg were making and the stuff I was getting free tickets to while employed at the American Symphony Orchestra League. It was almost a year before I went to my first gig in Harlem. But yes, so much more ground to cover! Didn't want to spend it all on the first post. I look forward to future contributions from you. The last thing I want here is just a rehash of what we all already know.

Best of luck Molly, and I'm looking forward some awesome MTG genre-squishing.

Thanks so much for the link. Congrats on your first post.

I was just thinking on Saturday about this very subject. I was at a new music concert which, aside from the absence of any rock inflection, was best described as shoegazing.