My Q&A with Marc Wilson of the Nelson-Atkins: "Getting Back to the Core"

Marc Wilson, director of the Nelson-Atkins Museum of Art, in his office in the museum's Steven Holl-designed addition

The Nelson-Atkins Museum's recent announcement of 75 donors' gifts of 400 artworks in honor of the Kansas City museum's 75th anniversary and its soon-to-retire director, Marc Wilson, makes this a good moment for me to publish excerpts from my conversation with this dean of American art museum directors, which took place when I visited in November to cover the opening of the museum's new American Indian art galleries.

Surprisingly, there was no art in Wilson's office in the museum's new Bloch Building, because "the light levels are too high. I'd rather have the window." The brightest illumination came from his comments about the state of the American art museum, from the vantage point of his 28-year directorship (from which he will retire on June 1) and his lifelong commitment to Chinese art scholarship.

Rosenbaum: You mentioned to me [earlier in our conversation] that there have been shifts in fashion in museum leadership. What kinds of shifts were you referring to?

Wilson: We all now have audio guides. We all have to do them. But we often lose sight of the real core that should be guiding them. Often, it is---"I have to have exhibitions about this" or "I have to have BIG exhibitions that will draw." These trends last a while---the "hot issue" of the day. And I find there's very little real thinking about: "What does this really mean, cutting through the fashion of the decade? "

We're in a specific place with a specific mandate---getting back to the core, without getting stuck in excessive sensationalism: popcorn and calliopes. At the end of the day, you may hook people, but if they don't have some kind of rewarding time in those galleries with that art, then they're probably coming back, not for the art, but for the cupcake that you give them.

Rosenbaum: What should your museum be looking for in the new director?

Wilson: I think the director has to be passionate about art, wide open about the notion of human beings who make up this society, and understanding that it's not enough just to say that all art is good and you should look at it.

Some of the barriers---and, believe me, everybody has them---should be gotten rid of. We can say it's socio-economic, race or cultural background, but in my view, the biggest barrier is education.

For one-third of our visitors, the family income is below $55,000. If your ratchet it up, you find the income of about 80% [of our visitors] is below $70,000. What does that say to you? People say, "Art is for elitists." Well, we are elite in the sense that the works of art are superior achievements of exceptional people who have lived amongst us.

Rosenbaum: You have had some dealings with the Metropolitan Museum's new director, Tom Campbell. How do you regard him?

Wilson: He seems to be level-headed. I think he is open-minded. He seems to be flexible. He does not seem to be an ideologue. He's earnest in wanting to grow his own horizons and expand them. He seems to be trying to listen to his curators. I do not believe he is an autocrat. On the whole I believe him to be a person who seems to listen well.

He almost HAS to rely more on his staff for input. Philippe [de Montebello, the Met's previous director] would tend to hear an idea and it would come down as "yes" or "no." But I think Tom is a little more deliberate and that would be something that's in his favor as a new director.

He seems to be very smart. I think he's going to do very well. I like him. I've found him reasonable. He is not a stuffed shirt.

Rosenbaum: What are the most pressing issues that you think your institution will have to address, after you've left?

Wilson: Money is a big one. We don't get tax support and we don't charge. So we don't have a lot of alternatives. We don't have a huge vacationer population coming to us. We're not an international tourist center, the way New York is. They can charge a high fee, and the tourists are all willing to pay for it and they're willing to shell money out. We have a decent number of people from outside Kansas City, but it's not as though we're densely populated. We have to do what we can do---hustle, raise money and be very smart about how you spend it.

Rosenbaum: You mentioned to me that you want to go back to China to improve your language skills. What else will you be doing after you leave the Nelson-Atkins directorship?

Wilson: I love doing shows and exhibitions. I love making works of art come alive. It's about all those people out there and the great works of art: I love to make that connection.

In Chinese art, there's so much to do, in bringing all the research up to date. The basic scholarship on the Chinese paintings is up to date. But what we're now missing is the context of all this, in light of new discoveries.

The first thing is: I can't get ahead of the new director. I've got to be out of here and I've got to back off. You can't have an eminence gris hanging around the place. You have to completely change gears and put your self in a subordinate role.

Rosenbaum: Will that be hard to do?

Wilson: No.